Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: zach@drutx.att.com (Zach Lewis) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Law and Love Message-ID: Date: 11 Oct 89 08:42:17 GMT Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO Lines: 184 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , mls@cbnewsm.att.com (Mike Siemon) writes: > > David Buxton and Zach Lewis are engaged in a passionate defense of Sabbath > observance (apparently, of the Jewish Saturday variety), I am confused always when we say that the Sabbath was for the Jews. Mark 2:27 Jesus says the Sabbath was made for the Man Are you tring to say that the Sabbath was made for the Jews only ? Maybe Jesus is tring to confuse us or man and Jew means the same in Greek. Is Sunday Holy ? Where in the Bible ? I am not tring to burden you with the Law but to free you from tradition. Sunday is not a day that God choose so why do you keep it ? Is God choose the Sabbath wouldn't it make sense to keep a day that God has blessed, Made Holy since CREATION ! Why do you continue to put the Sabbath with the things that point to the cross. Does it hurt to keep the Sabbath ? Do you have clear insight from God's word that the Sabbath given to Adam in the Garden Gensis 2:2,3 was do away with for Sunday ? 1 John 5:2,3 Which says this is how we know we love God if we keep his commands. I know you want to say the New Testament commands but is that what the Bible says ? It is always a choice and if you think God does not care it is your choice. But It has been shown you from the Bible and you can use man's words but God's word is sure and makes it clear in Galatians 3:28,29 that there is NO DIFFERENCE between who (JEW/YOU, MALE/FEMALE, SLAVE/FREE for we are ONE in Christ tnd in verse 29 I says that all the promises given to the Jews are given to those who are in Christ. So why does the most protestant churches still try to draw lines between a Jew an them ? God knows and it is clear in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12. Men wonder after the traditions of MEN. It is your choice God wants people to worship him in spirit and TRUTH not man made fables. I just asks that you stay in Bible if you want to defend your point to me. Maybe other people will take your word for it but until there is a Thus saith the Lord Jesus I will follow where Jesus led and Jesus kept the Sabbath and all things that Jesus did were good ! > Sinai) while ignoring the rest (apparently, they can ignore all practical law > as long as they keep a highly symbolic Sabbath?) Symbolic of Creation and that God has done all and does all. What does Sunday symbolize ? Sun worship (Baal), Man's Tradition. > I want to look here at the Torah of Israel, at law as it applies to all of us ^^^^^ The Torah of Israel ????? Why do men miss Galatians 3:28 ? Is it not clear there is NO DIFFERENCE ! This is the standard reponse that a Sunday (Baal) uses to say that it not important to keep the Sabbath but Sunday is better ? WHY ? > in our mere humanity, and at the true law of God that is written in our hearts > and which is the obedience to God's will that Jesus pointed to in the Sermon > on the Mount -- an obedience that we all find impossible except through the > grace of God living in us, through Christ. > I should make it clear AGAIN that the LAW does not save ! It shows us our defects so that we will go to Jesus to get them clean ! This is what has be taught since Adam sinned that Jesus is the only Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. >Zach cited psalm 119, and indeed it is worth dwelling on > that for a moment: > > Teach me, O Lord, the way of thy statutes > And I will keep it unto the end. > Give me understanding, and I will keep thy Law, > Yea, I will keep it with my whole heart. > > There are in every generation Jews who delight in the Law, and do so not as > hypocrites but as those who love God and their neighbor, whose delight in the > law is derived from a God-given grace to obey the great commandment as Jesus > taught it. Jesus was just repeating what he gave the Jews with the LAW in Deuteronomy 6:4,5. Oh it says hear on Israel that must leave you out again ??? Leviticus 19:18 deals with the Neighbor as yourself. Why do men miss Galatians 3:28 ? Is it not clear there is NO DIFFERENCE ! >I want to point out to Zach and David that THIS commandment is NOT > one of those inscribed on stone. Wrong Again Please read the Bible and uses scripture to understand scripture > Jews have never held that Sabbath observance was a law for all nations, nor Mark 2:27 AGAIN and also did Jesus do anything that we should not do ? Jesus did not act in any of the laws that pointed to Him , but He did keep the Sabbath every week. > And if Zach and David do not realize that they > are condemning people >and doing so on the basis of the flimsiest kind of "logic" I am just reading the Bible and if the Bible condemns it must be God's word. Please don't accuse me unless you have clear text from the Bible and not man made interpretations that make sin legal and Sunday holy. > that and by many other departures from the Torah I set myself outside the Law > as it was given to Israel. But Israel's covenant is nothing of mine, except > insofaras I am adoptive into Israel by the death of Christ, by His blood. But > this blood dissolves the stones of Sinai as it dissolves the hardness of my own > heart. Please use a Bible text and not your own words to break God's law. It is your choice. The Law is God's not Israel's please understand that the Bible NEVER calls the 10 Commandments the LAW OF ISRAEL so why do you have you been listening to man and NOT GOD ??? WHY ??? John 3:19. Light is shining why stay in darkness ??? > > III. No, the 10 commandments are NOT binding, any more than any other part > of the code in God's covenant with Israel is binding. I guess you are God and can change his Law ? It is you CHOICE ! > > I can only conclude that for the Christian, there is no law other than Christ. I am glad that you say you conclude rather than the Bible clearly says because that has been the main trust of your post what you think rather than what GOD HAS SAID ! > Michael L. Siemon The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; > cucard!dasys1!mls and you say "Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, > att!sfbat!mls a friend of tax collectors and sinners." And > standard disclaimer yet, Wisdom is justified by all her children. And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgement; that ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ; Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. Philippians 1:9-11 (KJV). ZAC ! [A number of our readers may find the suggestion that they are worshipping Baal to be slightly lacking in Christian charity. If they worship the Sun because they worship on Sunday, do you worship Saturn because you worship on Saturday? The proper terms are, of course, the Lord's Day and the Sabbath, respectively. In common speech we often use the normal English words because we are speaking English. --clh]