Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!att!cbnewsj!jwi
From: jwi@cbnewsj.ATT.COM (Jim Winer @ AT&T, Middletown, NJ)
Newsgroups: comp.ai
Subject: Re: Discovering What Nature Wants
Summary: Inferring Nature's intentions
Keywords: Consciousness and Intentionality.
Message-ID: <1535@cbnewsj.ATT.COM>
Date: 19 Oct 89 15:35:02 GMT
References: <357@massey.ac.nz> <2376@munnari.oz.au> <2394@uceng.UC.EDU> <74427@linus.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 70

> Barry W. Kort writes:
>
> I seem to have triggered a lively discussion on inferential
> reasoning.  In response to a commentary from Richard O'Keefe, 
> I asked:
> 
>  > > Are you telling me that you disbelieve that human beings are
>  > > capable of intentional behavior?
> 
> To which Jim Winer responds:
> 
>  > No, he's telling you that if we can't establish "intention" on the
>  > part of Nature, we can't determine if a "mistake" has been made
>  > (i.e., it might have been intentional).  Therefore, we have to
>  > assume "stupidity" on the  part of humanity.  It's the only way to
>  > account for the observed facts.
> 
> I don't deny that humans are known to act unwisely from time to
> time, but it is not clear that we do so intentionally.  Perhaps
> it is in our character.

Perhaps, but more clearly, it's in our character to be greedy. Based on
common usage (and the New York Times), corporate 
managers are out for "short term gain" at the expense of the long term.
Similarly, from the vidiot box, the advertising industry encourages us to 
consume, comsume, comsume. A similar situation now exists in western
Europe and Japan. Based upon history books, it is also reasonable to 
infer that the human race has been greedy throughout its history.

It is likely that this greed is necessary to the survival of
the individual and is highly related to teritorial behavior in other
species -- i.e., we might not exist if we weren't greedy. From this
we might infer that Nature intended us to be greedy to insure our
survival.

The problem is that on a mass scale, this greed threatens our survival
as a species. From this we might infer that Nature intends to terminate
the human experiment or we might infer that Nature has made a mistake.
Unfortunately, we can't ask (don't know how to ask) Nature what was 
intended. We have two sets of facts:

	1.	Our greed helps insure our survival as individuals.
	
	2.	Our greed helps insure our termination as a species.
	
Rather than conclude that Nature intends us to survive or that Nature
intends us to terminate, I feel that either:

	1.	Nature is incapable (or uninterested) in intending
		anything on our behalf, or
		
	2.	Nature intends for us to make a choice,
	
either of which leads us me to the same conclusion: 

	We do not behave intelligently.
	It is in our character to behave stupidly (suicidally).
	
To put this in words closer to your own:

	Humans are known to act unwisely most of the time, 
	and it is clear that we do so intentionally.  
	Perhaps it is in our character.

Jim Winer -- The opinions expressed here are not necessarily
	     and do not represent nor in any way imply
	     of any other sane person and especially not
	     employer.
"I'd like to see this petty bickering ended so we could get to some 
more important bickering." -- David Bedno