Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ncar!ames!pacbell!att!cbnewsd!bamford
From: bamford@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (harold.e.bamford)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: pet birds that have the fly of the house
Message-ID: <2366@cbnewsd.ATT.COM>
Date: 13 Oct 89 22:50:21 GMT
References: <993@dinorah.wustl.edu>
Reply-To: bamford@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (harold.e.bamford,ihp,)
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 90

In article <993@dinorah.wustl.edu> (Mary E. Leibach) writes
reponses to my article:

>bamford@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (harold.e.bamford) writes:

>>It is surprisingly easy to step on a bird.  Some friends of ours
>>just lost their lovebird that way.

>... good arguments for flying birds.  But they are even better
>arguments for strict supervision.  If you know where your bird is at
>every single minute, you won't be stepping on it.

I must agree here with the strict supervision comment.  In the case
of my friends' lovebird, Peaches, the doorbell rang which startled
EVERYBODY badly (including both of my friends).  Two dogs started
barking, and both birds went slightly bananas.  Peaches hit the
floor and got stepped on a fraction of a second later.  Not poor
supervision.  Just bad luck.  And Peaches could fly...

>>1) They get too independent and cannot be controlled.  This is true
>>of hand-fed babies as well as wild caught.  Birds that fly are
>>almost always more 'bitey' than clipped birds. 

>I don't "control" birds, I relate to them as friends with mutual trust
>and respect.

Sigh.  I was afraid this would be misunderstood.  Both of our birds
are hand-fed babies.  They are far friendlier than any "tamed" bird
can ever be.  In the case of Pandora (full name: Pandora Hatfield,
the Real Macaw), I don't think there are friendlier birds
anywhere.  There may be some as friendly, but none that are more.

But birds are, forever, two year old children.  They get
independent (which is not a problem, per se).  They often express
their independence by biting too hard or ignoring directions during
feeding (No!  Get OFF of my plate!  Get OUT of my coffee!  Do NOT
stick french fries in my EAR! etc...) or ignoring their potty
training.  Such are parental discipline problems.  Parents often
deal with recalcitrant children by confining them to their rooms,
but we reserve caging for only the most serious offenses.  We have
found that the natural tendency for disruptive behavior is
decreased when the wings are clipped.  And the other advantages are
free.  

These birds are members of the family (one step, IMHO, beyond mere
friends).  Their happiness and safety are very important to us.  We
tried going without clipping the wings and now we feel this is
better.  It was not an easy decision to make as they clearly loved
to fly.  But we firmly believe that clipping was the right thing to
do.

I can well believe that the smaller birds (like your Cally) are not
in the danger from flying that the larger birds are in.  But a
screen across a window won't help a macaw that has just spotted
something fascinating outside the window.  But it DOES sound like a
great idea for smaller birds.

>I selected my apartment with birds in mind.  I am on the fifth floor.
>If a bird were to fly out the door, it would be in a heated hallway,
>with the elevator or the stairs (protected by a door) the only exits.
>If someone comes calling, they have to call on the phone downstairs.
>I then have plenty of time to get the birds in the cage, go down
>stairs and let the person in.  My door is always locked, and the
>windows have screens (on the inside, minimizing injury when colliding
>with the window).

We live in a house.  So do many others.  You seem to have found the
ideal situation for YOU.  Others may not be willing to give up
their current home.  These others should consider clipping wings as
an alternative to moving to a different home.

>How about blood spurted all over the place?  That is what happened,
>repeatedly, when Cally had his first moult.  You see, when I got him,
>a year ago this month, he had his wings clipped severely.  No flight
>was possible.  He was also rather clumsy.  Then when those blood
>feathers started coming in, the accidents started happening.

My understanding is that a properly clipped cocketiel can often
still fly short distances.  (I expect that we will now be flooded
with messages supporting/detracting from this).  It sounds as though
Cally had been improperly clipped.  But given your traumatic
experience and your environs, I concur with your decision to not
clip again.  Not that you needed my approval...  :-)

It begins to sound as though the decision to-clip-or-not-to-clip
should be based upon many factors including: environment, species
of bird, owner's experience, etc.  Do you (and other bird owners)
agree?  What other factors should be involved?

-- Harold