Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!wuarchive!dinorah!mary From: mary@dinorah.wustl.edu (Mary E. Leibach) Newsgroups: rec.birds Subject: Re: pet birds that have the fly of the house Message-ID: <998@dinorah.wustl.edu> Date: 16 Oct 89 19:01:16 GMT References: <993@dinorah.wustl.edu> <2366@cbnewsd.ATT.COM> Distribution: usa Organization: Washington University (St. Louis) Lines: 112 In-reply-to: bamford@cbnewsd.ATT.COM's message of 13 Oct 89 22:50:21 GMT bamford@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (harold.e.bamford) writes: >>In article <993@dinorah.wustl.edu> (Mary E. Leibach) writes >reponses to my article: >>bamford@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (harold.e.bamford) writes: >>>1) They get too independent and cannot be controlled. This is true >>>of hand-fed babies as well as wild caught. Birds that fly are >>>almost always more 'bitey' than clipped birds. >>I don't "control" birds, I relate to them as friends with mutual trust >>and respect. >Sigh. I was afraid this would be misunderstood. Both of our birds >are hand-fed babies. They are far friendlier than any "tamed" bird >can ever be. In the case of Pandora (full name: Pandora Hatfield, >the Real Macaw), I don't think there are friendlier birds >anywhere. There may be some as friendly, but none that are more. Sorry, that was a knee-jerk response to all this literature on taming that requires clipping first thing to make your frightened little birdie dependant on you for getting around so it will use your finger. Blakey got tamed because she thought I was a giant sized deluxe budgie chew toy. She doesn't bite though, unlike some hand-feds who shall remain nameless. >They often express >their independence by biting too hard Vila isn't independant, he's sadistic, and proud of it! He'd rather be carried somewhere than fly on his own, though he can. He is also big on petting. Can he help it if he likes the sound of my scream? >or ignoring directions during >feeding (No! Get OFF of my plate! Get OUT of my coffee! Do NOT >stick french fries in my EAR! etc...) The only way to get anything eaten in peace is either while the terrible twosome are in their cage, or when they have goodies in their dishes on the playgym. Vila is cute about drinking from a glass (which he just discovered this weekend) but Cally is a menace. He has tried landing in my cereal. (No, Cally, Cherios will not support your weight! Splash!!!) >Such are parental discipline problems. Usually I am at the receiving end of this. Cally is very strict with me. ;-) >These birds are members of the family (one step, IMHO, beyond mere >friends). Their happiness and safety are very important to us. "Mere" my foot. I would, and have, go any lengths for them. >We live in a house. So do many others. You seem to have found the >ideal situation for YOU. Others may not be willing to give up >their current home. These others should consider clipping wings as >an alternative to moving to a different home. Provide they are clipped properly, I agree. I was just moving to my first apartment, and kept birds near the top of the list. >My understanding is that a properly clipped cocketiel can often >still fly short distances. Vila could glide 20 feet on his clip! He couldn't gain altitude though, and couldn't take off from the floor. My idea of a proper wing clip. >It begins to sound as though the decision to-clip-or-not-to-clip >should be based upon many factors including: environment, species >of bird, owner's experience, etc. Do you (and other bird owners) >agree? What other factors should be involved? In an ideal world, under ideal circumstances, wings should never be clipped. Most people don't have, or can't have ideal conditions, so their birds need to be clipped. I'd say time was a factor. If you can't take time to let them out to fly everyday (or give them a flight cage), they may as well be clipped. (Birdie needs strength and skill as well as feathers to fly out of a jam, and they don't get them without practice.) I'd get big cages anyway, but budget is also a factor in that cages big enough for even limited flight would be nice for a flying bird. Also, the availability of someone with skill to give a proper clip is important too. Otherwise, you are going to have some severe headaches! If you are planning a clip to correct possible discipline problems, make sure you have something to correct, and that clipping will correct it. Flying may cause some such problems, but so can maturity, mating urges, personality flaws, or even a desire for more attention. Personally I don't think clipping is bad in all cases, just in my case. Clipping for a good reason is a good thing. But every bird, and every human, is different. Clipping every bird, just cause a book says to, is not justified in my opinion. Or in Cally's, who was a victim of just such behaviour, as well as a bad clip. Most of Cally's problems can be attributed to what he suffered due to that clip. Do what YOU think is best, out of love, and for the welfare and happiness of your birdies. -Mary, and Cally the Precocious Cockatiel(tm), and Vila the Cudly Conure(tm), and Blake the Beautiful Budgie(tm), and introducing Del and Dayna, the Fertile (we hope) Finches(tm)! Better known as Blake's Birds(tm)! Dedicated to the memory of the British SF show Blake's 7, and the liberty and rights of pet birds!