Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!att!cbnews!military From: cperlebe@encad.Wichita.NCR.COM (Chris Perleberg) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Surprise in air combat Message-ID: <10333@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 18 Oct 89 02:50:06 GMT References: <9876@cbnews.ATT.COM> <10185@cbnews.ATT.COM> <10240@cbnews.ATT.COM> Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Organization: NCR Corporation Wichita, KS Lines: 48 Approved: military@att.att.com From: cperlebe@encad.Wichita.NCR.COM (Chris Perleberg) I hope this doesn't get to be a habit. Once again, I erred in a posting. I'm sure all you Sopwith Pup fans caught it. Nobody cares, I'm sure, but I gotta be accurate. It's the sci.military code! In article <10240@cbnews.ATT.COM> cperlebe@encad.Wichita.NCR.COM (Chris Perleberg) writes: > >>>One final point on this, wasn't the Sopwith Pup replaced by the Sopwith >>>Camel which was very tricky to fly, but highly maneuverable? >> >>It was indeed. >> >Not quite. If I recall, the Pup was never accepted by the RFC, which at ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Well, it was. The Pup served with 5 Squadrons (8 RNAS, 54, 3 RNAS, 66, and 46) and with the 1st RNAS Wing, as well as with Home Defense units later in its career. >the time was relying on Nieuport 17s, Fe-2Bs, and DH-2s. All of these >aircraft were dog meat for the Albatros D-IIIs then in service with the >Germans (early 1917). For inter-service rivalry reasons, the RFC refused >to buy a Sopwith product. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It wasn't so much interservice rivalry as the fact that the RFC wanted to stick with one supplier -- the Royal Aircraft Factory. The RAF produced such great designs as the BE2 (the original Fokker Fodder), the FE2 (a fine defensive fighter, whatever that is), the RE8 (new, improved Fokker fodder), the BE12 (a cruel hoax as a fighter), and finally, the SE5/5a (they finally got it right). Against all logic, the RFC continued to buy from the Factory, using French aircraft to take up the slack. As a procurement procedure it made great accounting sense. And the BE2 is widely regarded as the most stable and easiest RFC aircraft to fly -- exactly the wrong characteristics for a combat aircraft. But as a combat decision, it killed a lot of pilots. The Pup was a superior aircraft, capable of meeting the Albatross on equal terms (in October and November of 1916, No. 8 (Naval) squadron downed 20 German aircraft while bailing out the RFC over the Somme). The decision not to buy the Pup was political, and should serve as as example for our time as well. ---------------------------------------------- Chris Perleberg cperlebe@encad.wichita.ncr.com