Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!daemon Sender: From: chengpi@ecf.toronto.edu (CHENG) Original-To: utchinese Subject: UTC NEWS Special Message-ID: <89Oct17.153845edt.20892@ecf.toronto.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 89 15:34:33 EDT Newsgroups: ut.chinese Distribution: ut Sender: list-admin@csri.toronto.edu Approved: nobody@csri.toronto.edu ***************************************************************************** NEWS UTC Special Issue Oct.17, 1989 ***************************************************************************** To Dear Readers: In the past weeks, we had discussions on the function of CSSA (LYH). Today we post this special issue which collects all papers posted on NEWS UTC and some mails between editors and readers related to this topic. We hope that this will help you to have a whole picture of what happened. We believe that such kind of discussions help to improve our work and to create a (more) democratic and active atmosphere. This is the first time that we had an open discussion about our own. Although there may be some misunderstanding or misconception, we will work hard to have a better mutual-understanding. As we claimed at the foundation of NEWS UTC, chengpi@ecf is our working account. All papers posted from here is not written by chengpi. It is our policy that we will only reveal the author's name if he or she agrees. But it does not mean that NEWS UTC will post nonsense or any personal attack stuff. We will keep trying to do more. Remember, we depend on your support. We hope that we can still get your support by your participating. NEWS UTC is YOUR forum to express YOUR ideas and suggestions. Thank you. ****************** This article was posted on Oct.11, NEWS UTC Issue25. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This article was written by one of recipients who knows CSSA at UT. It will answer some readers' questions. But it has not been checked by the governing committee of Lian Yi Hui yet. NEWS UTC ========= ABOUT OUR CSSA (LIAN YI HUI) at TORONTO ================ The chair person of LYH of U. T. has been changed since September. The formal chair of LYH, Mr. Gu Chun, quited this job for his personal reason. Mr. Gu was a Ph.D student at Law Department of UT. Recently he gave up his Ph.D Candidate at Law school of U.T. and registered as an under- graduate student at the Law School of York University. The reason to do so, by quoting some of his friends, is that one must have a first degree in law in one of Canadian universities if he wants to become a lawyer in Canada. We wish he successes in new university. The current chair person of LYH is Mr. Jiang Xunhao, a Ph.D. candidate at Ontario cancer institute. The new chair is selected by the governing body of LYH. The current vice chair in charge of external affair is Mr. Li bin, a Ph.D. student at civil engineering.The other vice chairs are Mr. Song Qiang,a visiting scholar at Ontario Hydro, and Mr. Xu Jinshu, a visiting scholar at mechanical engineering. Other committee members are: Mr. Pan Rui, a Ph.D. student from management school, in charge of communication; Mr. Liao Jianqiao, a Ph.D student at industrial engineering, who is in charge of sports; Mr. Shi Yinhuan, a post-doctor fellower at physics, who is in charge of entertainment; and Mr. Yuan Qingrong a visiting scholar from forest faculty who is in charge of movie; etc. The current LYH plays a very low profile in democratic movement here in Toronto, in order to avoid the direct contradiction with Chinese consulate, since LYH each year gets some subsidies from the consulate. It is believed that this strategy adopted by LYH meets the majority of member's will. To show the goodwill between the LYH and consulate, some key member of LYH get the invitations for the dinner party which is held by the consulate to celebrate the fortyth anniversary of PRC. U of T is one of the member school of ACSS( Quan Jia Xue Lian), although it has not been officially voted by all its members, whereas it did in other University like York, McMaste and Waterloo, etc.. *************************************************************************** This comment was written by Li Anshan on Oct. 11, regarding to the above. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >From csri.toronto.edu!daemon Sat Oct 14 17:26:52 EDT 1989 Received: by jarvis.csri.toronto.edu id 4389; Sat, 14 Oct 89 17:34:13 EDT Received: from yonge.csri.toronto.edu by jarvis.csri.toronto.edu with SMTP id 4376; Sat, 14 Oct 89 17:30:12 EDT Received: from ecf.toronto.edu by yonge.csri.toronto.edu via TCP with SMTP id AA23807; Sat, 14 Oct 89 17:28:32 EDT Received: by ecf.toronto.edu id 20740; Sat, 14 Oct 89 17:27:28 EDT Sender: From: CHENG To: utchinese@csri.toronto.edu Subject: LYH Message-Id: <89Oct14.172728edt.20740@ecf.toronto.edu> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 89 17:26:52 EDT Status: R ------------------------------------- DISCUSSION ON THE FUNCTION OF LYH ------------------------------------- From: anshan li Subject: Re: NEWS UTC To: CHENG In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Oct 89 21:38:09 EDT Message-Id: <89Oct13.162026edt.5682@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> Status: R The information about our LYH in past issue is very useful, but I think the last two paragraphs are more than necessary. We can (actually should) discuss the function of LYH, evaluate its roles or even criticise its leaders , because we are the members, it is our organization and the leaders are representatives elected by us. We can do all these as individuals or, as members. Yet I would consider it unsuitable for "chengpi'-the utc network to make certain judgement. Being objective and providing the most reliable information is much more important for a communication network--- that is the means by which you can get your credibility step by step. I would appreciate if you can forward this to other members if you think it might be useful. * We posted it because we thought it's useful. NEWS UTC ============================================================================= Then we got other notes: On Oct.14 from Song Wenyi ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >From csri.toronto.edu!songw Sat Oct 14 19:09:13 1989 Received: from sunhouzi.csri.toronto.edu by ecf.toronto.edu with SMTP id 20801; Sat, 14 Oct 89 19:09:06 EDT Received: from songw by sunhouzi.csri.toronto.edu via UNIX id AA13255; Sat, 14 Oct 89 19:08:45 EDT Date: Sat, 14 Oct 89 19:08:45 EDT From: Wenyi Song Message-Id: <8910142308.AA13255@sunhouzi.csri.toronto.edu> To: chengpi@ecf.toronto.edu, utchinese@ecf.toronto.edu Subject: Re: LYH Status: R >------------------------------------- >DISCUSSION ON THE FUNCTION OF LYH >------------------------------------- >From: anshan li >Subject: Re: NEWS UTC >To: CHENG > > The information about our LYH in past issue is very useful, but I >think the last two paragraphs are more than necessary. We can (actually >should) discuss the function of LYH, evaluate its roles or even criticise >its leaders , because we are the members, it is our organization and the >leaders are representatives elected by us. We can do all these as individuals >or, as members. Yet I would consider it unsuitable for "chengpi'-the utc ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >network to make certain judgement. Being objective and providing the most ^^^^^^^ >reliable information is much more important for a communication network--- >that is the means by which you can get your credibility step by step. > > I would appreciate if you can forward this to other members if you >think it might be useful. > > In order to avoid further confusion, I'd like to make a clarification here. NEWS UTC is a news service provided by a group of Chinese students in the University. They broadcast news from the account chengpi@ecf. For anyone who read the introduction to ut(.)chinese, it should be clear that this network is a forum for everyone who wants to discuss issues related to China. As a member of the network, either NEWS UTC or the person for whom they posted the comments about LYH certainly has every right to do so. On the other hand, please don't consider opinions expressed in their messages carry the voice of the network. No one would be so naive as to believe the existence of such an authoritative voice in this democratic place. In summary, NEWS UTC is not equal to utchinese. By the way, several leaders of our LYH have access to utchinese, in particular, Mr. JIANG Xungao, the Chairperson. In my humble opinion, they could speak out and keep our fellow utchinese better informed. If anyone has problems with posting to the network, please let me know. I'll try my best to help solve the problem. Meanwhile, he/she could send the article to some friends who can post, or to NEWS UTC, since they promised not to censor any article sent to them without permission from the author. Your fellow utchinese, Wenyi Song songw@csri.toronto.edu =========================================================================== On Oct.14, NEWS UTC posted a letter from one reader ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear Editor: In one piece of the past news I posted a personal description of the current situation of LYH. It was edited into UT.Chinese issue. Here I want to make it clear that it only carried my personal opinion and any discussion is welcomed on this network. Please forward these to me in the open manner. As I understand, we are fighting for a democratic future. UT is more or less a silent place. Personally I like to discuss the function of LYH since it is the only organization we have. First of all, no matter for what sake it is, I think LYH really keeps low profile. On Oct. 12, SAC organized a special event (the day of tears) many non-chinese were moved by the shows and about $90 was collected for sending letters to China. To my surprise, most of the LYH leaders did not show up. They even did not lend a hand for the preparation. I wonder why LYH is doing this, for getting money from Chinese Consulate or other unknown sakes. Also, I heard the 'rumor' that some of these "leaders" were so happy to attend the celebration party for Chinese National Day on Sept. 28. Many students and my friends share this opinion with me: "our LYH should stand up for most of us and fight in the front line." Sincerely A reader of UT.Chinese ============================================= On Oct.15, Jiang Xunhao, the chairman of LYH, wrote a public letter ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >From csri.toronto.edu!daemon Sun Oct 15 18:49:00 EDT 1989 Received: by jarvis.csri.toronto.edu id 4521; Sun, 15 Oct 89 17:57:35 EDT Received: from yonge.csri.toronto.edu by jarvis.csri.toronto.edu with SMTP id 4526; Sun, 15 Oct 89 17:57:03 EDT Received: from ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca by yonge.csri.toronto.edu via TCP with SMTP id AA29227; Sun, 15 Oct 89 17:56:49 EDT Received: from UTOROCI.BITNET (stdin) by ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca with BSMTP id 57373; Sun, 15 Oct 89 17:56:04 EDT Date: Sun, 15 Oct 89 18:49:00 EDT Sender: From: Subject: To: utchinese@csri.toronto.edu X-Original-To: utchinese@csri.toronto.edu, JIANG Message-Id: <89Oct15.175604edt.57373@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca> Status: R Dear UTC editor, I am the interim Chairperson of LYH at U. of. T. I welcome the open debate on the role of LYH in the movement for democracy in China. The LYH executive committee was elected by LYH members. According to the principles of democracy, every member has the right to express his/her opinions and concerns over LYH affairs. Here I would like to respond to the criticisms raised by "chengpi", and I personally take full responsibility for what follow bellow. (1) The stand of LYH executive committee in the struggle for democracy in China is firm and clear: we strongly condemn the brutal violence of the current Chinese Government in the crackdown of the student movement, and we believe that only a democratic system can bring prosperity to our motherland. we are part of the struggle. As you may know, many of the LYH executive committee members have been active in the movement. LYH has been directly or indirectly involved in organizing the 'Save Wong Dan' and 'October 1st' protests. These are the facts nobody can deny. (2) LYH is a social, not a political organization. Besides, there is a general consensus that the mainstream of struggle for democracy in the near future is not more public rallies but other more effective means, including self-education. Future LYH organized activities in this respect will be based on the above considerations. In addition, we believe that maintaining a working relationship with the Chinese Consulate is in the interest of majority members. In doing so, we will make sure that our stand in the democratic movement is not compromised. (3) As for the 'Day of Tears' event organized by SAC, I was informed only two day before. by that time, it was too late to mobilize LYH members though we did put up notices in the two Marriage Students Buildings in the name of SAC. (4) To my best knowledge, some U. of T. Chinese students were invited by the Chinese Consulate to attend the National Day Party, including some LYH members. Those attended only represented themselves and had absolutely nothing to do with the organization of LYH. (5) LYH at U. of T. currently has more than 400 members while the LYH executive committee consists of only 10 people. These executives are all full time students or scholars, and are all extremely busy. we are serving LYH members on voluntary basis with our good will. I WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE ON BEHALF OF ALL LYH EXECUTIVES THAT WE DO NOT GET ANY BENEFITS FROM IT. Chengpi's accusation of 'getting money from Chinese Consulate' is totally unfounded and he/she owes all of us an explanation. Furthermore, Since our manpower in very limited in view of the size of our LYH membership, members are encouraged to form their own clubs of interest, LYH executive committee will be supportive financially. (6) LYH is organized on the principles of democracy. Members of LYH are free to criticize any executive decisions. but anyone should do so openly and take full responsibility. From what I know, 'Chenpi' is not a real name. If one wants to criticize someone else, he/she should at least have the guts and decency to ues his/her true name. Best wishes. Yours X. Jiang ========================================================================== Remark: It seems that Jiang misunderstood some of the sentences. The author of the original paper might not mean to say that the executives of LYH got subside for themselves, but refer to the fact that LYH got money from the consulate. Once again, we claim that the paper was written by one of our readers, not chengpi. NEWS UTC +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ OK, dear readers, how do you think about this discussion? It is the first time. Emotional + misunderstanding + frustrating + ... => Better Understanding NEWS UTC