Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!utstat!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!dell!mikeh
From: mikeh@dell.dell.com (Mike Hammel)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: Software quality
Message-ID: <3857@dell.dell.com>
Date: 26 Oct 89 14:43:22 GMT
References: <1989Oct19.042903.7809@ico.isc.com> <6847@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1989Oct24.060132.1660@ico.isc.com>
Reply-To: mikeh@dell.UUCP (Mike Hammel, )
Organization: Dell Computer Corp., Austin, Tx.
Lines: 38

In article <1989Oct24.060132.1660@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes:
-[previous comments deleted, most of which I agree with]
-I am implying...nay, asserting...something much more fundamental:
-
-    An engineer is NOT subordinate to a manager.
-
-    A manager is NOT superior to an engineer.
-
-    An engineering organization is NOT a caste system.

Up to this point I agreed with how you have viewed manager/engineer relations,
but here I have to disagree.  In the sense of abilities, no, an engineer is 
not subordinate to a manager.  But in the sense of responsibilities the 
engineer must be, to some extent, subordinate.  If the engineer was not then
very little would get done if the two were at odds.  I worked at a place not
long ago where I *very* much disagreed with me second level manager, and told
him so at times.  But when the rest of the group agrees to abide by the managersdecision then I have no choice but to make the best of it or become the scape
goat for the projects downfall (which I knew would come, but I sure didn't 
want anyone dropping it on me).

-    A manager is NOT a superior, but merely a person serving a qualitatively
-    different purpose.  Management 101: A manager is an assistant to the
-    people who report to the manager.

A manager is someone who can lead and assists, when necessary, those who report
to the manager to find direction and achieve goals.  My difference with your
description lies with the managers ability to lead, which I find very 
important (not all engineers are good at setting or striving for goals, some
have to be prodded along).

Note: I agreed with most of what you said, its just that I've had a rough time
with managers these past two years who couldn't lead, and the ones that could
ended up being forced out by higher-ups who couldn't.

Michael J. Hammel   | UUCP(preferred): ...!cs.utexas.edu!dell!Kepler!mjhammel
Dell Computer Corp. | Also: ...!dell!mikeh  or 73377.3467@compuserve.com
Austin, TX	    | Phone: 512-338-4400 ext 7169  
Disclaimer equ Standard