Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!cica!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!unmvax!ariel!carina.unm.edu!cs2531bz From: cs2531bz@carina.unm.edu ( Marc Bluefire) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit Subject: Re: 8) Research Help (8 Message-ID: <808@ariel.unm.edu> Date: 23 Oct 89 09:34:54 GMT References: <115200037@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> <8135@microsoft.UUCP> Sender: news@ariel.unm.edu Reply-To: cs2531bz@carina.unm.edu.UUCP ( Marc Bluefire) Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 156 First, I would like to say, Mr. Mihocka, I agree with you that the old 8 bit isn't a top of the line computer.. and that I did not take your comments personally. However, I will reply to each of your comments and questions with logical reasons, and the then I will add my own thoughts at the end of this article. ******************************************************************************** In article <8135@microsoft.UUCP> w-darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek Mihocka) writes: > Yet another message from a die hard 8-bitter who claims he would die for >his machine. heh. He's doing a scientific paper on why the 8-bit has demised. >Well, how's this for an answer. It's old and uses out of date technology. It is true that the atari 8-bit is old, but it isn't true that it's technology is 'out of date'. It works on the same principles that the newer 16 bit computers use, only it's processors handle smaller loads, and it's operating system is therefore slower, and handled differently. > >Let's poll a few of these die hard 8-bit users out there. Have you ever >bought a scientific calculator, even though you know that a simple 4 function >calculator can do anything a scientific can, given enough time. Have you ever >sold your old 2 head VCR and bought a 4 head stereo VCR. Or sold an old car >that ran just fine so that you could get a new 1989 model? Why is the >8-bit Atari any different? Simple: Why would I want to spend $1000+ for a new 16 bit computer when I just bought this 130XE less than 2 yrs ago, and I paid only $150 for it? It does everything I need at this time. None of my friends on the net, and those who use 'forum' (a talk program wich allows multiple net users to communicate, much like the unix 'write' command.) seem to have any care wether I talk to them with my atari 130XE using a vt100 emulator and 80 columns, or a newer 16 bit computer with the same type of emulator (except for the 80 columns), or if I go down to school and use the VAX machine directly. Another thing is, VCR's don't change that significantly in how you operate them, a stereo VCR still has a PLAY key, and recording is done the same; a car still has an accelerator, and a simple brake. I wouldn't have to totally relearn to drive to hop in that new car, I would have to learn a new OS, and buy all new software for a new computer! ...accesories go simply from one car to the next, and so does that VCR tape, and the cover... > Yes, it may bring back warm and mushy memories >of the days of trying to figure out whether Maxell or BASF tape works better >with the cassette player, or trying to tune in your TV to get the best >picture in Atari BASIC, or using modems that interface to the joystick port. Bwahahahahahah! I don't have those "fond" memories, I have a top of the line monitor with composite and EGA graphics.., and two 1050 disk drives.. Not to mention an okidata printer (Okimate 10) and an SX212 modem. >But it is not exactly leading edge. Sure, I've heard 8-bitters tell me that >their computers work just fine and do everything they want them to, but usually >these people were too ignorant to be aware of the capabilities of other brands. I am fully aware of the capabilites of the "other brands", and of the advanced Atari 16 bit line. Could you loan me $3,000+ dollars, so I could get a new Mega 4? How about $5,000+ so I can buy a new Amiga? No, thanks....they don't really do that much more (practicality-wise) than my Atari 130XE, or my Commodore 128. (Yes, I do have a real 80 column computer...too bad it is no where near as reliable as my Atari 130XE.) I find my C128 spending most of it's time in C64 mode, evidence that it isn't the 8-bit that is dying, but rather Atari's poor management and marketing that was the downfall of the 130XE and it's XL family. Don't get too comfortable, the Atari ST is soon to join the 8bits in a lack of support and software. The only Atari store in New Mexico finally went out of business a couple of months ago. Most of the software stores who quit carrying Atari 8bit software in the past few years have dropped the ST software too. They know a company that failed once will do it again...Yet why? Atari has great machines... As for depemdability and reliability, my 8bits have never needed repair.. Not something I can say for any Commodore that I have ever known. The reason Atari doesn't do well in the PC market is because they never broke the myth that Atari means games... My Atari hardly ever plays games....It is mainly a communication computer. >If you prefer to listen to a vacuum tube radio, that's your right. Don't go >out and buy yourself a brand new component stereo system, but on the other >hand, don't go around advocating that others should buy vacuum tube radios. >And don't go weeping about the demise of the vacuum tube. That is the nature >of technology. 5 or 10 years from now, we'll be looking back and laughing at >the 80486 chip as being old and out of date. Your comparison of a vacuum-tube radio to a comp stereo system is outrageous! That is nowhere near the difference.. So, what do you suggest? Buy a new computer and software every year, or more? Keep up with the constant improvements in computers? That is outrageuos! > So let nature take its course. What ever that means! This has nothing to do with nature..it is purely human-kind. >The 8-bit is dead. Forget about it. Bury it. Deep six it. Get out of the >70's and 80's and live for the 90's. I paid $900 for an Atari 400 in 1981. >That's about $1500-$2000 of today's money, for which you can now buy a >machine 100 times faster. If anything, I should be worrying about the demise >of that $900, not the silly beige box with the membrane keyboard. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Darek Mihocka ST Xformer II CIS: 73657,2714 >Box 2624, Station B Quick Utilities GEnie: DAREKM >Kitchener, Ontario MegaBlit SSG SPX DELPHI: DAREKM >N2H 6N2 Shareware, not Vaporware BIX: darekm >Canada The 8-bit is dead! CheapNet: ...!uw-beaver!microsoft!w-darekm >(519)-747-0386 A mind is a terrible thing to waste, so JUST SAY NO TO TOS. >Opinions expressed are my own and not those of anyone not named Darek Mihocka. >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you think nothing of the atari 8-bits, then why do you waist your time reading our news group? Are you truly that bored with your 'superior' computer's abilities? Why pick on those who are happy with what they have? Are you not happy? BTW, I'd love to see this computer that can run 100 times faster than my 8-bit, for only 1500-2000 dollars.. I think it is quite funny that you waisted $900 on an 8-bit, and now you say what a waist they are...foolish indeed. If you are willing to throw away a few thousand here, and a few thousand there, it is entirely your choice. I have never forced my 8-bit on anyone, nor do I recommend it to anyone, but people like you who tell me and other Atari eight bitters that they shouldn't be happy have no right to do so. On many occasions others have posted articles much like yours, if I wished to upgrade to a new computer and leave my Atari 8-bit behind I wouldn't be reading this! Now, if you have nothing to say that would add to what we find as useful information for our 8-bits, I suggest you stop this waist of band-width on the net... If you have a reply, send it to me at cs2531bz@carina.unm.edu.UUCP, I would be happy to tell you what I think of you and your hotty opinions. I like my Atari 130XE, I wouldn't die for it, nor will it always be my main computer, but for now it is, and I enjoy it, so thankyou, and please go back to your 16-bit newsgroup. If you haven't noticed, they have a newsgroup for your ST, use it, and stop cluttering up our newsgroup. BTW, since I do owe a few of you the vt100 emulator which will work with the SX212, I want you all to know, I am almost finished writing a unix uploading program, so I can get that to you, sorry it has taken so long! Marc Bluefire M B Marc Bluefire [=] [=-=] [=] | |=-=-| c |-=-=| | _|_|____|_^_|____|_|_