Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!w-darekm From: w-darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek Mihocka) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit Subject: Re: 8) Research Help (8 Message-ID: <8231@microsoft.UUCP> Date: 26 Oct 89 17:51:36 GMT References: <115200037@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> <8135@microsoft.UUCP> <808@ariel.unm.edu> Reply-To: w-darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek Mihocka) Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Lines: 112 In article <808@ariel.unm.edu> cs2531bz@carina.unm.edu.UUCP ( Marc Bluefire) writes: >First, I would like to say, Mr. Mihocka, I agree with you that the old >8 bit isn't a top of the line computer.. > and that I did not take your comments personally. >However, I will reply to each of your comments and questions with logical >reasons, and the then I will add my own thoughts at the end of this article. > Now, now, Marc. Calm down. You started your message in a civilized manner, and ended up calling me a fool and told me to get off this newsgroup. Now that's not polite, and doesn't indicate to me you used any "logical reasons". I have as much right to use this newsgroup as any other user. As a former 8-bit user who has seen the errors of his ways, I feel that I can offer some points of view that 8-bit users like yourself have shut their eyes to. It's no crime to admit that you made a mistake and bought the wrong computer. Now, I'm not saying "go and buy an Atari ST" (that's hardly a good buy nowadays anyway) or "go and buy a 386", but as with any technology, you should not shut your eyes to new advances. Let's look at some of your remarks: >Simple: Why would I want to spend $1000+ for a new 16 bit computer when I >just bought this 130XE less than 2 yrs ago, and I paid only $150 A common belief amoung 8-bit users is that their computers are cheaper than others. A stock $150 130XE is about as useful as a hole in the head. What can you do with it? Plug it in and watch the READY prompt. You need a disk drive, or even two to do anything useful. Add another $300 or so. Unless you have a good health plan to cover eyeglases, you'd better get yourself a real color monitor and leave the TV for watching movies. Add another $300 or $400. And let's not forget that 256K or 512K memory upgrade which everyone seems to be getting these days. I don't know what they go for. Say $100. And you have to get SpartaDOS X because everyone says it the best DOS to get. Now, already you're spent close to $1000 to make your XE useful. What you've got is the equivalent of a 520ST with color monitor. A 520STFMD goes for about $400 or $500, and the monitor is about $300 or $400, so you see, the 8-bit system cost you about the same as the ST system. And if you consider IBM clones, you can get them for even cheaper! My 1040ST and 20 meg hard drive cost about $1500 3 years ago! Hard drives, modems, printers, and other accessories are going to cost you the same, whether you own an 8-bit, ST, IBM, or whatever. So put this lie about low price to rest, will you? > I would have to learn a new OS, and buy all new software for a new computer! Well, unless you plan on using computers _only_ in your home, you'd better get used to the idea of learning other operating systems. I've got news for you. Operating systems on 16-bit machines are a lot more use friendly and their programs don't put "please wait. initializing" on the screen all the time. >I am fully aware of the capabilites of the "other brands", and of the advanced >Atari 16 bit line. Could you loan me $3,000+ dollars, so I could >get a new Mega 4? How about $5,000+ so I can buy a new Amiga? >BTW, I'd love to see this computer that can run 100 times faster >than my 8-bit, for only 1500-2000 dollars.. Once again, we're back to the price issue. Your ignorance of the real world is amazing. You speak of the 386 machines as if they do not exist. Under $2000 386 systems have been around for about a year now. Once again, I will repeat my point about early prices of the 8-bit machines. When they first came out, a 48K Atari 800 system with disk drive cost about $2000, 1980 dollars too! In 1989 dollars, that is _more_ money than what a 386 system costs. Now if in the early 1980's, so many people bought the Atari computers because of their advanced technology, even though they were paying more for them than they would for say, a cheap Apple II clone, then why the sudden about face? You said it yourself. Your friends would not care if you telecommunicate on an Apple II, or Atari 400, or ZX81. Why did you buy the Atari? I suspect you are an Atari dealer groupie. I'm not saying go to Computerland and take a look, since they probably wouldn't let you in. But there are a lot of small dealers who will take the time to show you the other machines and give you a good deal. A friend of mine just bought a 12 MHz 286 machine with 40 meg hard drive, printer, and EGA monitor for under $2000. Funny thing is, he bought it from an Atari dealer who has turned to selling IBMs so he can stay in business. >The reason Atari doesn't do well in the PC market is because they >never broke the myth that Atari means games... > Well, I find it hard to believe that Atari's are good for anything but games. Just look at the new Atari STE. 6 damn joystick ports! >If you think nothing of the atari 8-bits, then why do you waist your time >reading our news group? Are you truly that bored with your >'superior' computer's abilities? >Why pick on those who are happy with what they have? Are you not happy? > >I think it is quite funny that you waisted $900 on an 8-bit, and now you >say what a waist they are...foolish indeed. > I was once fooled into the power without the price myth too. I was 14 at the time. Excuse me for not having better judgement or the benfits of services like Usenet to get other people's opinions. >Now, if you have nothing to say that would add to what we find as >useful information for our 8-bits, I suggest you stop this waist of >band-width on the net... First, I would recommend that you learn to spell the word "waste". Secondly, who are you to censor my opinions? An ignorant 8-bit user who does not know what he's talking about. At least if you had been able to make some valid points I might have taken you seriously. I am not saying some brand of computer is better than some other brand. I am saying that there comes a time when old technology must be put to rest, and the time has come for the 8-bit computers (all of them, not just your beloved 130XE). - Darek ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Darek Mihocka ST Xformer II CIS: 73657,2714 Box 2624, Station B Quick Utilities GEnie: DAREKM Kitchener, Ontario MegaBlit SSG SPX DELPHI: DAREKM N2H 6N2 Shareware, not Vaporware BIX: darekm Canada The 8-bit is dead! CheapNet: ...!uw-beaver!microsoft!w-darekm (519)-747-0386 A mind is a terrible thing to waste, so JUST SAY NO TO TOS. Opinions expressed are my own and not those of anyone not named Darek Mihocka. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------