Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!unmvax!ariel!carina.unm.edu!cs2531bz From: cs2531bz@carina.unm.edu ( Marc Bluefire) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit Subject: Re: 8) Research Help (8 Message-ID: <836@ariel.unm.edu> Date: 27 Oct 89 09:41:05 GMT References: <115200037@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> <8135@microsoft.UUCP> <808@ariel.unm.edu> <8231@microsoft.UUCP> Sender: news@ariel.unm.edu Reply-To: cs2531bz@carina.unm.edu.UUCP ( Marc Bluefire) Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 139 In article <8231@microsoft.UUCP> w-darekm@microsoft.UUCP (Darek Mihocka) writes: >Now, now, Marc. Calm down. You started your message in a civilized manner, and (cut down to shorten this posting..) >I have as much right to use this newsgroup as any other user. As a former 8-bit >user who has seen the errors of his ways, I feel that I can offer some points >of view that 8-bit users like yourself have shut their eyes to. It's no [....] [you should not shut...] >eyes to new advances. Thanks, but as I said before..I am tired of pople like you trying to show us the 'errors' of our ways..... I did not buy the 'wrong' computer....I bought a very versatile, and fun computer...for an 8-bit...... I have considered many computers that are better in some ways than my 130XE! I am going to eventually buy one, but not until I find one I really like! The NeXT looked promising...but I don't have $5000 or even $500 to invest in any computer right **--now--** ! I will admit, before I continue to answer your reply, that I did get a little too abrasive, and I apologize. It's tough to stay logical at 2 to 3 am!!! Right now it's 2:57, and like that night, I've just gotten off work (cooking on the broiler at Chili's); quite exhausting work, yet I stay wound up for a couple of hours after work.. >A common belief amoung 8-bit users is that their computers are cheaper than >others. A stock $150 130XE is about as useful as a hole in the head. What <> This hole-in-the-head is what I am writing to you with RIGHT now.. The equipment I have with it are: 130XE -- 150 1050 -- 150 1050 -- 20 (got it from a friend. Used one's go for about $50..) SX212 -- 75 Oki 10 - 250 (got it when it was brand new stuff....Used go for less than 50) (printer) Magnavox 350 (supports RGB and composite...RGB for my C128) ----- 995 True, it wasn't cheap...but that was only 1 to 6 yrs ago!! 130XE: 2yrs ago 1050: 2yrs and 3 months SX212: 6months Oki 10: 4yrs Magnavox: 2months Then, there's my old 600xl (sold it) over 5yrs....and my old GE tape drive ($50) 5yrs ago too! But, the biggest hurt is the software: over $400 in software.... including Flight Sim II, Paperclip II, Star Fleet I, XE games... Not to mention the shareware! >Well, unless you plan on using computers _only_ in your home, you'd better >get used to the idea of learning other operating systems. I've got news for >you. Operating systems on 16-bit machines are a lot more use friendly and >their programs don't put "please wait. initializing" on the screen all the time I know other operating systems...Unix for one. And I am aware I will have to learn new OS's...I just don't want to have to do that right now for my home, since I am busy learning one's at school... The NeXT is Unix based, so it wouldn't be so bad...I really would like to get a computer that has a unix OS, as DOS is soon to die. >Once again, we're back to the price issue. Your ignorance of the real world >is amazing. You speak of the 386 machines as if they do not exist. Under $2000 >386 systems have been around for about a year now. Once again, I will repeat >my point about early prices of the 8-bit machines. When they first came out, >a 48K Atari 800 system with disk drive cost about $2000, 1980 dollars too! >In 1989 dollars, that is _more_ money than what a 386 system costs. Now if in >the early 1980's, so many people bought the Atari computers because of their >advanced technology, even though they were paying more for them than they >would for say, a cheap Apple II clone, then why the sudden about face? >You said it yourself. Your friends would not care if you telecommunicate on >an Apple II, or Atari 400, or ZX81. Why did you buy the Atari? I am not ignorant of the real world....I KNOW tht there are more important things in reality than keeping a 'top technology' computer in my home at each change... The REAL world my friend, doesn't revolve around personal computers, and what kind you own! Might I ask what it is you do for a living? have you ever had to work a truly tough 8-12hr day? I've done 17hr days, have you? have you ever worked on a non-white collar job? THAT'S the REAL world! BTW, a computer that operates at 100 to 200MHZ I would LOVE to see for less than $2000!!!! That is what a computer that runs 100 times faster than mine would be! A VAX runs about 25 to 36MHZ...Those are incredible speeds!! >I suspect you are an Atari dealer groupie. I'm not saying go to Computerland >and take a look, since they probably wouldn't let you in. But there are a lot >of small dealers who will take the time to show you the other machines and >give you a good deal. A friend of mine just bought a 12 MHz 286 machine with >40 meg hard drive, printer, and EGA monitor for under $2000. Funny thing is, >he bought it from an Atari dealer who has turned to selling IBMs so he can stay >in business. i am not an Atari dealer groupie..that would be impossible in NM... Our last Atari dealer went under this year.... I have been in Computerland plenty of times, and not truly impressed!!! When I get my next computer, I want to REALLY be as impressed as I was with my 130XE!! I have a friend who just did that same thing, only a 20Meg hard drive... As for user friendly...nope! DOS is a bitch...he still is having troubles with many functions. I'm supposed to sit down and help him someday.. Our dealer did the same about changing to IBMs and other computers as well.. they still went under. >Well, I find it hard to believe that Atari's are good for anything but games. >Just look at the new Atari STE. 6 damn joystick ports! Yeah, it's true they are good at games, but that doesn't limit them to games... >First, I would recommend that you learn to spell the word "waste". Secondly, >who are you to censor my opinions? An ignorant 8-bit user who does not know >what he's talking about. At least if you had been able to make some valid >points I might have taken you seriously. I am not saying some brand of computer >is better than some other brand. I am saying that there comes a time when old >technology must be put to rest, and the time has come for the 8-bit computers >(all of them, not just your beloved 130XE). > >- Darek Real nice ending there..... I thought you were dissapointed with my closing, then why come back with the same lousy attitude? I am definetly not ignorant.... I do know what I am talking about. Many friends and co-workers come to me when they are looking for a computer... Not one has been unsatisfied with the computer they have bought due to my input. They haven't bought Atari's, but rather IBM clones and the like, so I know what I am talking about on prices.. I had many valid points which you just kind of swept under your delete key....and a few which you argued with. The computers you mentioned for around $2000 I wouldn't buy, even if I did have the money. I will only go to the top of the line, best and most versatile computer for my next one. Sorry about spelling waste wrong... BTW, I heard that you are the one who wrote the STXFormer, better know as the 8bit simulator for the ST computers. Looks to me like you really do like the 8bit and it's capabilities...It takes a lot of work to write an emulator, so it wasn't just a 'for the heck of it' type of project... M B Marc Bluefire [=] [=-=] [=] | |=-=-| c |-=-=| | _|_|____|_^_|____|_|_