Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!usc!aero!avery@well.UUCP From: avery@well.UUCP (Avery Ray Colter) Newsgroups: soc.feminism Subject: Re: Understanding/Fighting "Chivalry" Message-ID: <14254@well.UUCP> Date: 24 Oct 89 06:21:31 GMT References: <890927.013338424@Prime> <59342@aerospace.AERO.ORG> Sender: nadel@aerospace.aero.org Lines: 49 Approved: nadel@aerospace.aero.org Status: R foy@aerospace.aero.org (Richard Foy) writes: >In article <890927.013338424@Prime> HB@prime.acc.virginia.EDU (Hank Bovis) writes: >># carries across the whole room declines my offer to pay at least half >># of the check with the words "When I'm at the table with beautiful women, >># I ALWAYS pay the check." >># >># So I decided that what he deserved was to do just that. >One might also respnd in such a situation, " Thank you. I will donate >the money I save to National Organization for Women." And these opinions are my own: WHAT THAT MAN DID WAS NOT REALLY CHIVALRY. At least not by the definition I carry in my noggin. To me, a chivalrous man will learn, by direct and discreet communication, how his "damsel" how she wishes to be treated, and will loyally and gallantly act within those bounds until notice of their change. He will not make grandiose presentations to others about his supposed chivalry. A truly chivalrous man is satisfied that both he and the people he knows intimately are aware of it, and will only make such things public if actively challenged or called into question first. A chivalrous man sure as hell would not do something that any walnut-headed peasant knows would embarrass the lady with whom he is dining. Now, maybe this isn't the classical form, and maybe it intrinsically assumes women to be human companions instead of "property", but beyond that I can see little difference. Perhaps this man still thinks of women as objects and interprets chivalry on this basis. I assert that if one thinks of women as fellow human beings and proceeds to build a system of honorable conduct from there, it will produce quite different results in situations like these. -- Avery Ray Colter (415) 451-7786 | Now, class, repeat after me: {apple|ucbvax|pacbell}!well!avery | ICH LIEBE DIE BELEIBTEN LEIBEN, avery@well.sf.ca.us | UND HUPFENDE HUEFTE HABE ICH GERN!