Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: smith_c@ncsatl.uucp (Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Mortal Sins?? Message-ID: Date: 30 Oct 89 03:32:41 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: National Computer Systems, Atlanta, GA Lines: 84 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu [In article , garyf@mehlville.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Faulkner) described a decision to move from the Catholic to Protestant church. --clh] I feel for you and your wife deeply. I left the Roman Catholic church not all that long ago myself. Hmm, this is not meant antagonistically, it's just an observation: When Protestants change churches, it's sometimes difficult, sometimes not, depending on the individual; I've known some Protestants who choose a denomination based on the location of the church/proximity to home, etc. For Catholics, it's almost always an extremely difficult decision. To change Protestant denominations is not at all the same as leaving the Church. Hmm, as a Catholic, I can say that I tend to regard the Catholic church as the Church and all the rest as varying denominations. In other words, the Catholic church isn't even a denomination: It's the original from which all other churches have splintered. I don't think Protestants look at it that way at all. At any rate, I was somewhat shocked when a Roman Catholic priest told me that, simply by virtue of being received into the Anglican Catholic Communion, I had effectively excommunicated myself. I'm still struggling with it. Anglican devotion to Mary, for example, is lukewarm at best. I'd like to say here that I'm fully aware this is a public forum and I have no problem saying that I'm still struggling with my faith. Heck, if I quite struggling with my faith, I'd be worried.... > The biggest question which she has asked that I did not know the > answer to is about the (7?) mortal sins. Any RC's out there want > to give some insight into what they are (neither one of us can even > remember them), what is meant by mortal - does it imply that you cannot > be forgiven these sins, even through the payment Christ made on the > cross? The terms mortal, grave, serious, deadly, basically all apply to the same concept; essentially, mortal/deadly has to do with the effects in the sinner WRT deprivation of friendship w/God, whereas grave/serious refers to how important the sin is, that is, how deeply does the sin offend God? Clearly, murder offends God more deeply than, say, telling a lie. I don't think the Church sees these as different kinds of sin; basically, it only recognizes two kinds of sin, mortal and venial. Mortal sin destroys sanctifying grace because of the sinner's deliberate and willful act of turning away from God. Venial sin is an offense against God that does not cause the loss of one's state of grace. With that out of the way, I'd like to say that official Church teaching sometimes differs from actual Church practice. I distinctly recall asking the Father in Confession the difference between the two, and he said, "Ahhh...." I could see him waving his hand through the confessional screen. "A sin is a sin is a sin. There's no mortal or venial about it." He went on to encourage me to speak my conscience. Now that's putting into practice what the Father says to you at the beginning of the Sacrament, "May the Lord be upon your lips and in your heart so that you may give a right and true Confession," if you can make out the words, they say it so fast....hee hee.... Biblically, I think Christ states specifically that the only sins which cannot be forgiven are "sins against the Spirit." I think these are rejections of the gifts of the Holy Spirit (which Paul lists in I Corinthians 12 and 13 and 14, or thereabouts, pretty well, I think), contempt for the gifts, etc. I think they also include pretty obvious things like deliberately rejecting God's salvation, presumption of God's mercy (Well, it's okay, I can do this sin, I can always repent for it later, that kind of thing). I think opposing the known truths of the faith is also here, since Paul speaks of the importance of the Scriptures to the faith, and we acknowledge that the Holy Spirit has spoken through the Prophets. I think the Church would agree with the statement that there is no sin Christ will not forgive if truly repented. I hope I answered your question okay. I don't know what things you don't agree with. I have no real problem with the above. But, then, there may be a lot of really technical stuff I might not agree with if I knew about it. Heh. In trying to explain the Episcopal Church as Anglican Catholic to someone, I remarked that it has all seven sacraments (yes, I go to Confession in the Episcopal Church, the sanctity of Confession is still absolute, no difference here), and is basically Catholic without the Pope. My Roman Catholic friend laughed and said, "Most American Roman Catholics are Catholic without the Pope, anyway." I think she had a point. In my prayers, I sometimes ask God to forgive me for praying for things that I know I'd reject if granted. If God can forgive me for that, I'm convinced He can forgive me for anything. -- Standard Disclaimer: These are my soul opinions, heartfelt and passionately expressed. They do not reflect the opinions of National Computer Systems, whatever *they* might be.... Yours in Christ, SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER gatech!ncsatl!smith_c