Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!att!cbnews!military From: mjt@mcnc.org (Michael Tighe) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: U-2 shootdown--not a shootdown? Message-ID: <11124@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 4 Nov 89 04:12:19 GMT Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Lines: 62 Approved: military@att.att.com From: Michael Tighe From: ckd%bu-pub.BU.EDU@bu-it.bu.edu (Christopher K Davis) An additional point or two: > Robert Heinlein disbelieved this one, too. (See _Expanded Universe_ > for details--"PRAVDA means TRUTH" is the portion in question, I > believe.) He noted that a shootdown from full U-2 altitude, at full > U-2 speeds, would most likely turn the aircraft into Christmas tree > tinsel (E = mv**2, and all that). Certainly there would be no > surviving radio gear (or pilot!). > Can anyone speak to this? Not knowing the speeds involved, etc, I > can't do the calculation (and this is a late-night response with the > library already closed). Bill? Mary? Some more points to ponder: I do not think the aircraft was not actually hit by fragments of a missile's warhead. It failed structurally as a result of the shock waves surrounding it as SA-2 SAM's were detonating all around it. (No less that a dozen SA-2's were fired to bring it down. Also, I am pretty sure a MiG-19 sent up to intercept it was also shot down in the fireworks.) This opinion is also shared by both Kelly Johnson and Gary Powers. Whether this constitutes being "shot down" or not, is up to each reader to decide. Although it may not have actually taken a direct hit, I would still consider this being "shot down". Also, I have seen the wreckage of the aircraft and it is still easily identifiable as a U-2. I could not find any evidence that parts of it were hit by warhead fragments (not that I am an expert on these matters). However, all of the wreckage is not on display. Some parts are missing. Even if it was actually hit: Many planes that are shot down do not break up into tinsel. Look at KAL 007. It took 12 minutes to tumble down after being hit. I am sure there are some big chunks of 747 out their in the sea. I imagine many of the passengers survived the initial explosion. Look at Challenger. In its own way it took a direct hit, yet it did not break up into tinsel. It too had some big parts recovered. Does anybody have numbers for its speed and altitude at breakup? Unfortunately, I missed the show you spoke of. I would be interested to know what Robert Heinlein claimed, "full U-2 altitude, at full > U- 2 speeds", were. Officially the top speed of a U-2 is listed at around 525 mph. This is often slower than a commercial airliner. So it was not as if it was cruising at Mach 3+. Those really interested in this tale should check books by Gary Powers ("Operation Overflight"), Kelly Johnson ("Kelly: More than my share"), and another author whose name eludes me at this moment but the title is "Mayday". ------------- Michael Tighe Internet: mjt@ncsc.org