Path: utzoo!censor!geac!jtsv16!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!CHEETAH.NYSER.NET!mrose From: mrose@CHEETAH.NYSER.NET (Marshall Rose) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso Subject: Re: OSI Documents Message-ID: <28938.626913638@cheetah.nyser.net> Date: 12 Nov 89 22:40:38 GMT References: <8911122109.AA29503@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: iso@nic.ddn.mil Organization: The Internet Lines: 58 Long, but informative-- Well, I'm the last person to defend OSI (some say the first person), but there are rational reasons as to why the ISO documents are distributed the way they are. It is important to appreciate that anyone can get a copy of any ISO standard. It's true that the documents are costly, but this is strictly a cost recovery mechanism. ISO breaks even on the deal. In comparison to the popular press or even university texts, there isn't really that much demand for standards, so not many copies get printed and the cost per unit is high. Keep in mind these things are typeset by gnomes in CH, they aren't ASCII-set by the actual authors. Typesetting is enormously personnel and time expensive. This costs big bucks, or CH francs. If you want to deal directly with the ISO you can, though typically it is preferable to go to your national standards body (e.g., ANSI in the US) for copies. As you might expect, you will pay a little more because there is personnel and handling involved. There are even some companies licensed to sell copies of standards. The one I recommend is "The Document Center" in Belmont, California at 415-591-7600. They (and companies like them) will do all the leg work to find copies of things for you at whatever prices are there. So why copyright the things and why not make them available on-line? The copyright is there because it is legally necessary to make sure that people don't change the documents. They aren't available on-line, primarily due to historical reasons. There really isn't a uniform format or anything else: it's all up to the editor of each individual document, some still use typewriters, some use MACs, some use PCs, some use LaTeX, etc. The more forward-thinking editors usually make an on-line copy of interim and final documents available to their buddies. However, these aren't official in any sense. Only things published by the ISO are official. The big-vendor conspiracy is a crock. What you have with ISO standards is the real world. Although it might surprise some, freebies and subsidies are the exception in the business world, not the rule. It costs time, people, and money to attend standards meetings. It costs money to buy copies of standards. And so on. This is called "the cost of doing business" or more colloquially, "the cost of admission". At previous companies I've been at, I've had the library order standards for me. They have a budget for things like this. Unless you're a small shop, it's almost certainly the case that someone has money for something like this. If not, then the organization in question should re-evaluate priorities accordingly. If you're a small shop, you can sponge off someone else. I know half-a-dozen of consultants who do this. /mtr ps: before someone goes calling me some kind of greedy, big-business shill, it should be pointed out that for the last four years I have orchestrated the largest collection of openly available OSI software since time's dawn (now how's that for self-aggrandizement!). I don't have any sympathy for the ISO, the standarization process, standards documents, or standards committees. They are all flawed, but they are reasonable processes for the imperfect world. We don't live in a perfect world, and my goal is simply to damage control the pain.