Xref: utzoo comp.sw.components:396 comp.software-eng:2331 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pantor!richard From: richard@pantor.UUCP (Richard Sargent) Newsgroups: comp.sw.components,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Maintenance Message-ID: <28.UUL1.3#5109@pantor.UUCP> Date: 9 Nov 89 13:38:18 GMT References: <78584@linus.UUCP> Organization: Pansophic Systems Inc, Graphics Product Company Lines: 66 Received: by pantor.UUCP (UUL1.3#5109) from becker with UUCP; Wed, 8 Nov 89 23:04:32 est Path: becker!censor!utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!usc!snorkelwacker!spdcc!merk!alliant!linus!community-chest!mitchell From: mitchell@community-chest.uucp (George Mitchell) Newsgroups: comp.sw.components,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Maintenance Message-ID: <78584@linus.UUCP> Date: 7 Nov 89 20:02:20 GMT References: <1337@accuvax.nwu.edu> <11064@cbnews.ATT.COM> Sender: news@linus.UUCP Reply-To: mitchell@community-chest.UUCP (George Mitchell) Organization: MITRE-McLean Software Engineering Laboratory Lines: 12 In article <11064@cbnews.ATT.COM> kww@cbnews.ATT.COM (Kevin W. Wall,55212,cb,1B329,6148604775) writes: `Just once I'd `like to see a homework assignment in some CS course be something like ` ` "add features X and Y to this 60,000 software system (which the ` students have never seen before) and turn it in next week". Would someone (or more) please address why this is not done. -- /s/ George vmail: 703/883-6029 email: mitchell@community-chest.mitre.org [alt: gmitchel@mitre.arpa] snail: GB Mitchell, MITRE, MS Z676, 7525 Colshire Dr, McLean, VA 22102 About a year ago, I read a paper in a periodical about a university prof who did a teaching experiment on this. Unfortunately, I can't find, nor recall, the periodical! The work involved modifying a mail system. The gist of the article was that the technique worked, but it is very difficult to establish a suitable problem environment which fits the structure and timing available in a university semester. As for when this kind of teaching will be widespread, please remember that *any* organization larger than, oh say, 10 people is incapable of reacting very quickly to changes. The larger the organization, the slower the reaction. A single university is pretty large. The entire education system is very large. It will come. In the meantime, there are education programs like the one pioneered by the University of Waterloo, called co-operative education. The premise is that students attend one semester of classes, then work for one semester for a company whose business is related to the student's field of study, and repeat for a total span of 5 years instead of 4 to cover a 4 year degree program. The result? Graduates who don't suffer from "ivory-tower-itis", who have almost 2 years relevant work experience in their chosen profession, and who are not in debt to their eyeballs, and whose parents can afford to send their second born to university, too. These co-op programs are becoming very widespread. Waterloo was founded as an engineering school in 1957 and started co-op studies immediately upon founding. Now it is regarded as one of the foremost schools for computer science in North America. I guess it is also fair to say that detractors claim the co-op program breeds yuppies, that the students have no sense of fun, and on and on. Needless to say, I disagree completely. Richard Sargent Internet: richard@pantor.UUCP Systems Analyst UUCP: uunet!pantor!richard