Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cornell!uw-beaver!mit-eddie!apollo!rehrauer From: rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Re: Languages!!! Message-ID: <46d19982.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> Date: 13 Nov 89 21:50:00 GMT References: <8911110458.AA06278@jupiter.nmt.edu> Sender: root@apollo.HP.COM Reply-To: rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) Distribution: na Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA Lines: 55 In article <8911110458.AA06278@jupiter.nmt.edu> ehsnsr@JUPITER.NMT.EDU (Eric Hobbs) writes: > I am looking into trying to learn a new computer language, >but I really don't know which one to try out. The only things that >I must have is a language that is in the Public Domain or it is >Shareware (I'm a poor college student!), the language must support >graphics and sound without too much hassle, and it _MUST_ be able >to run on a 520STfm with 512K and a 360K SS/DD disk drive. Well >that narrows it down, doesn't it. I don't really want to learn >68000 assembly language and I only know BASIC and a little bit of >Logo. (Pretty Limited, Huh?). > You guys and gals are my last hope! Save me from expensive >languages and ST BASIC!!!!!ARRRRGH! If you just want a better BASIC, I'd suggest GFA BASIC. I've never used it, but most people seem to like it well enough (certainly can't get much worse than ST BASIC, eh?). I _believe_ the interpreter is (or was?) public domain? At least, I'd swear I saw a copy of the GFA BASIC interpreter on a STart magazine disk last year... Your system memory & disk size is probably going to encourage you to use an interpreter (of whatever language), since they tend to be smaller than a compiler for the equivalent language. I can vouch that the OSS Personal Pascal compiler (_VERSION 1_ !) is _barely_ usable on a stock 520ST with one 360K drive. I emphasize _barely_! Useful as a learning tool, at any rate -- you'll be able to keep SMALL programs all on the (copy of the) compiler disk, in fact, and avoid disk-swaps (though a RAM disk makes things less painful -- putting the compiler's temp files on the RAM disk speeds things up a bit, too). The documentation is even pretty good. As for availability, sorry. I don't know if Optimized Systems Software is still around, and you don't want PPascal 2.0 on that configuration (v2.0 grew a bit) anyway, so I'd suggest finding someone who is selling their copy of v1 (pay no more than $20-$30; it retailed for $79, and commonly sold for under $50) or find a mail-order "firesale". (Sorry, I'd like to keep my copy of v1.0 -- I don't use it anymore, but I'm a pack-rat. ;-) (Alas, I think you'll soon find yourself straight-jacketed by Pascal's strict type-checking on the ST. Although OSS wrapped a decent interface around a substantial chunk of the GEM/TOS functions, they weren't all there in PPascal. And IMO, it was a real pain to go outside of the OSS- supplied interface when you needed to, largely because of type-checking. They extended the ISO standard in other ways; why they didn't add some sort of type-cast (beyond variant records, which I LOATHED using) is beyond me.) All of the other ST compilers I've had occasion to use require either more memory than 512K, or another drive, or a hard-drive, or all three to be useable & relatively pain-free. Really, you may want to shop around for another SS drive at the very least. Or, better yet, upgrade to 1M of memory and use a big RAM disk. -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | Steve Rehrauer, rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Flee, lest we be trod upon!" | The Apollo Computer Division of H.P.