Path: utzoo!attcan!sobmips!uunet!aplcen!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ncar!jsloan@handies.ucar.edu From: jsloan@handies.ucar.edu (John Sloan,8292,X1243,ML44E) Newsgroups: comp.sys.encore Subject: Re: Umax4.3 and NFS Message-ID: <5279@ncar.ucar.edu> Date: 16 Nov 89 19:51:00 GMT References: <838@thor.wright.EDU> Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu Lines: 102 From article <838@thor.wright.EDU>, by dcourte@thor.wright.edu (Dale Emery Courte,040P Lib. Annex,873-4030,): > From article <20754@ut-emx.UUCP>, by clyde@ut-emx.UUCP (Clyde W. Hoover): >> Well, I AM faulting Encore Customer Service!! As best that I can tell, the : > Whew! This group has been so quiet I thought I was the only one who was > concerned about this.A : > As for the long-awaited 4.3 release, these delays have cost Encore. Lack of > subnetting support under 4.2 cost them at least one Multimax sale on this > campus. The CS department here watched closely our experience with the > Multimax, and were impressed with the machine, but for this one (major) > defficiency. "Real soon now" wasn't good enough for them, Since in my previous job I participated in the very decision making process Dale describes in that same CS Department at Wright State, I guess I'll let off some steam here, not all directed an Encore. <<>> Y O U ' R E R I G H T , D A L E !!! But the problem isn't limited to Encore, or even to companies having difficulty with user support. For twelve years at WSU I waited for a computer and/or network sales rep that understood what academic computing environments were all about. For twelve years I had to _try_ to educate one rep after another (and boy, do they turn over frequently), from xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, xxx, and xxxxxx (you fill in your own, you know who they are), and a lot of other companies to the fact that (as the years wound by) without Ethernet, without TCP/IP, without UNIX, without subnetting, without client and server NFS and YP, without X11, their wonder box was nothing more than a BIG EXPENSIVE PAPERWEIGHT. The damn thing could turn back flips, but if it couldn't be integrated into our network environment, users simply couldn't use it. Its not that they wouldn't WANT to use it, but it would be so inconvenient, inefficient, ineffective, or actually impossible, that the usage, and people's attitudes about the product, would never be what the vendor expected. "Please, God", I would pray (and as Dale knows, I am not a particularly religious person), "send me a sales rep that knows their product line; that knows how it compares to other vendors products; that knows how it could be integrated into my network effectively; one that knows the difference between 20 users running a word processing application and 20 users running concurrent prolog, ADA, and Common Lisp. Or the difference between supporting four workstations in a lab, and a hundred workstations across a Department, and a thousand workstations across a campus. One who has my long term interests at heart... okay, I'll settle for my short term interests." Now, I'm not unreasonable (as Dale knows), I expected to have to make a deal here. "Please, God, I promise not to be nasty to them. I promise not to laugh at their inflated, silly claims. I promise not to mock their marketing-speak. I promise to give their product a fair chance. I promise not to harbor unclean thoughts regarding justice, punishment, and torture. Really. Honest. Would I lie to you?" But it never happened. Not once. Ever. Lord knows, I tried. I gave talks, held impromptu seminars, complete with pretty slides and graphics, and gave demos and tours of our facilities, but about the time I thought I was getting through to one sales-droid, it would be replaced with a new model with its memory reset. We were mostly reduced to picking out the buzz words from the sales pitch (ignoring 99% of what was said), and evaluating the magic product ourselves, depending upon kind USENET users and folks at other institutions who used this same product and looked upon us with almost superhuman patience, and were willing to explain why they didn't like this piece of software or that box. Many of you will say "Welcome to the real world". Well, you are so right. Let the buyer beware. But just once, once (am I asking so much?) I would like to see a sales rep that _knew_, really _knew_, when what they were saying was pure horse hockey. But as long as vendors hire marketing and sales folks who have degrees in <<>> There, now _I_ feel better, and maybe some of you do to, now that you know (really, didn't you always really know?) that someone else feels the same way you do. DISCLAIMER: I have nothing to do with purchasing in my new job. Nothing at all. Zilch. Thank god. Vendors, don't call me, unless you want some real invective. I've had enough of you. Go sell used cars, or handle procurement for the Pentagon. I have no idea what experiences my current employer has had with vendors xxx, xxx, xxxx, or even xxxxxx. John Sloan NCAR/SCD NSFnet: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu P.O. Box 27588 P.O. Box 3000 +1 303 497 1243 Lakewood CO 80227 Boulder CO 80307 Member: ACM,IEEE-CS,NSS,AMA Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail. John Sloan NCAR/SCD NSFnet: jsloan@ncar.ucar.edu P.O. Box 27588 P.O. Box 3000 +1 303 497 1243 Lakewood CO 80227 Boulder CO 80307 Member: ACM,IEEE-CS,NSS,AMA Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail.