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From: tp@mccall.uucp
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.groups,comp.mail.uucp,comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: New newsgroup hierarchy
Message-ID: <1661.25645071@mccall.uucp>
Date: 17 Nov 89 18:39:44 GMT
References: <1618.25614348@mccall.uucp> <1989Nov16.172110.21492@utzoo.uucp>
Followup-To: news.admin
Organization: The McCall Pattern Co., Manhattan, KS, USA
Lines: 73

In article <1989Nov16.172110.21492@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
> We will unhesitatingly carry them if and when they become subgroups of
> comp.os.vms.  We will be very reluctant to carry them if you insist on
> having your own top-level name; there are too many top-level names already,
> and I utterly fail to see why you need one of your own.

In article <91457@pyramid.pyramid.com>, csg@pyramid.pyramid.com (Carl S. Gutekunst) writes:
> No! This is a different distribution -- therefore it definitely should have
> its own top-level name. ...
> 
> vmsnet.* is the right way to go.

These are obviously the 2 sides to the issue. There are several reasons we
decided to go this way. First, we thought there might be quite a bit of
resistance to a lot of VMS traffic on usenet, being a net mostly of unix
systems. Second, a lot of VMS sites don't want the usenet traffic, or don't
think they do, or don't want all of it, and would prefer to have a separate
set of groups. Of course there are a half dozen or so usenet groups that
they will need to pick up, but we distribute a list of those with the
software.

An important point here is that we aren't adding a new top level to usenet,
we are creating a new net named VMSnet.  That's what a separate hierarchy
is for.  A good example is bionet, a special purpose net for a special
audience. It isn't part of usenet, although many usenet sites are also
bionet sites. Many usenet sites are now vmsnet sites, but none have to be.

VMSnet isn't usenet. If you want to create a group in the vmsnet hierarchy,
don't bother announcing in news.groups, and don't bother taking a vote. We
haven't even thought of those issues yet, but the place to talk about it
would be vmsnet.misc. I announced the hierarchy on usenet, because I think
there are a fair number of VMS users out there (I was right, I've gotten
many responses, from 3 continents).

Sites agree to carry traffic for various reasons. Large universities or
companies may have VMS vaxes, so they would carry the groups as a service
to their users. Many sites will carry them as a service to those
downstream. Many NNTP sites will carry the groups just as a service to the
net and the readers of those groups. (Thanks, we appreciate it!)

Most of the sites that have agreed to carry vmsnet have also agreed to
carry pubnet, bionet, u3b.*, unix-pc.*, gnu.*, etc., or at least some of
those. I doubt that the people at those sites actually read those groups in
all cases. They are doing a favor for a special audience on the net. vmsnet
is in this way no different.

We do think, just based on the number of VMS machines out there, that
vmsnet will become large in its own right. If the traffic gets high, and
usenet sites decide to stop carrying it, that's fine too. (Almost by
definition, if vmsnet is that active, it will have large sites capable of
being a de facto backbone.)

I've already had one site tell me quite politely that he had no VMS users
and no extra space, so he wouldn't carry the groups. That is perfectly fine
too. I expected more of these. I'm quite frankly surprised at the number of
major sites that have agreed to carry the groups. I was expecting fewer.

At the risk of sounding mushy, having sent and received a combined total of
over 100 mail messages in the last few days getting this hierarchy
arranged, I now know how a totally anarchistic net can work: the people
running the major sites are very friendly and generous people who like to
help others.

> A bit of tolerance is worth a  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
> megabyte of flaming.           | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

I sure hope that the tone of this didn't come out harsh, it is in no way
meant as a flame.

-- 
Terry Poot (800)255-2762, in Kansas (913)776-3683
The McCall Pattern Company, 615 McCall Rd., Manhattan, KS 66502, USA
UUCP: rutgers!ksuvax1!mccall!tp   Internet: tp%mccall@ksuvax1.cis.ksu.edu