Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!mdcbbs!system
From: jmi@devsim.mdcbbs.com ((JM Ivler) MDC - Douglas Aircraft Co. Long Beach, CA.)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Suspicious Results of sci.aquaria vote
Message-ID: <452.2562b158@devsim.mdcbbs.com>
Date: 16 Nov 89 13:08:40 GMT
References: <21910@gryphon.COM> <4323@hplabsz.HPL.HP.COM> <SHAFER.89Nov8153646@drynix.dfrf.nasa.gov> <18175.25612d86@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <4199@nigel.udel.EDU> <6985@ficc.uu.net>
Organization: McDonnell Douglas M&E, Cypress CA
Lines: 60

In article <4199@nigel.udel.EDU> berryh@udel.edu (John Berryhill) writes:
> I can't believe the number of people that believe that campaigning and
> canvassing for votes is "dishonest."

Your so right. Working at DAC we have about 35 different systems that can 
access the NET and NEWS. Next time I will send out local mail to all the users 
that I know about (about 500 engineers) and request that they vote the way I 
want them to on some newsgroups creation. 

**Come on, be real!!** Solicitations of non-NEWS reader votes runs contrary to 
the basic foundation of the why this vote is being taken in the first place.

As far as I can tell, votes are taken to get input from those who *use* NEWS as 
to how they feel about the creation of a newsgroup. If someone goes outside the 
common channels on which the vote is being taken, to request and extract votes 
from persons who would not normaly vote, it is not dishonest, but it could lead 
to others doing it to "kill" or "pass" thier choice newsgroups.

This is an extreamly bad precedent. While I am new to the "net", I knew not to 
do this here, Richard has been on for some time, he should have known better. I 
also have to ask... Richard, from what I have read, you claim you did this as a 
defensive measure since you percieved a threat that others were going to do 
this to you. It seems clear (by the vote) that the others did not do it to you. 
In your comments (and those from your supporters) there seems to be no 
"remorse" for firing the first shot (if this were a nuclear war we would really 
have been in trouble with you pushing the buttons) and starting what may become 
"the ballot box stuffing wars" on the net.

While I feel that the vote should be invalidated (and I am trying to set aside 
my personal feelings and my vote on this issue) I am sure that there will be 
no invalidation of the vote. Richard has gotten what *he* wanted and in the 
process he has opened a can of worms that may, like Pandoras box, be 
responsible for the future ills of the system (no I am not predicting the 
distruction of the net - I am not a fatalist). He may not be a net.god, but 
the actions taken in this vote, by both Richard and his supporters, appear to 
be (in the jaundice eye of a new member to this community) very borderline if 
not downright improper.

Politicing on the net, that's to be expected and in some ways (as much as I 
hate flaming) can help someone who is undeceided make up thier mind and vote. I 
do not like the idea in crossing some of the postings to alt.flame (that has 
cost me loss of face and about three hours of my time when I responded to 
something that was posted in news.groups, and the original poster could have 
sworn that he posted to alt.flame) but there isn't alot I can do about that.

I do feel that we, the net users, have to address this issue of ballot box 
stuffing (having users who are solicitated from outside the net place votes for 
or against a newsgroups creation) as soon as possible (disreguarding Richard 
and the *.aquaira issue entirely) or the entire process may just become a moot 
point.

[Disclaimer: These opinions belong to the author and not to MDC or DAC]
[sidebar note: This is not to be considered a personal attack on Richard. I 
               don't know him. This is an attack on the methods used to get
               votes for the creation of the newsgroup sci.aquaira]

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