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From: hb@uvaarpa.virginia.edu (Hank Bovis)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Identifying the "different" (was Re: ... change the language?
Summary: Is the removal of visible differences a _necessary_ precondition
         to ending discrimination?
Message-ID: <1420@uvaarpa.virginia.edu>
Date: 10 Nov 89 02:39:38 GMT
References: <47469@bbn.COM> <1329@uvaarpa.virginia.edu> <1989Nov7.065815.22895@agate.berkeley.edu>
Sender: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle)
Reply-To: hb@Virginia.EDU (Hank Bovis)
Organization: University of Virginia, Charlottesville
Lines: 68
Approved: tittle@ics.uci.edu

I think the following points are somewhat off the subject of langauge, so
I am starting a separate thread.

In article <1989Nov7.065815.22895@agate.berkeley.edu> Mark Ethan Smith <era1987@violet.Berkeley.EDU> writes:
>There are many ... devices used to denote that a person is female, such as
>traditionally feminine names, female clothing, and socialization in
>female mannerisms.  Without having been given a female name, wearing
>female clothes, learning to speak, walk and act in a female manner,
>and being referred to in a gender-specific, non-default way, a person
>who is born female might not be readily recognized as such in any and
>all situations, and might thereby avoid some types of discrimination.
>As Professor Gerder Lerner said in, "The Creation of Patriarchy," in
>order to keep an entire class of people permanently oppressed, they
>must be made readily identifiable at all times.  That's why slaves
>were always required to wear clothing that marked them as slaves and
>forbidden to wear clothes that might cause them to be mistaken for
>free persons.  That's why Jews and gays in Nazi Germany were required
>to wear distinctive patches on their clothes.  It is just too easy to
>make a mistake and treat somebody as an equal unless they are
>obviously marked out as different.  ...

Although I agree 100% with your observations here, Mark, I have some
problems with the prescriptions for remedying discrimination that
seem to be suggested.  Specifically, the implication here seems to be
that the only way to truly end discrimination is to eliminate readily
visible diffferences between affected classes and non-affected classes.

Certainly I would concede that this would work if it could be done,
and you yourself provide good evidence that it can be done with
respect to gender to a large extent.

Nonetheless, I sincerely hope that this is not the _only_ way to solve
the gender discrimination problem, because it it is, then by analogy,
the race discrimination problem becomes intractable.  I suppose we
could all camouflage our faces in some way, but I think that would be
a rather high price to pay.

In any case, since I am not willing to concede that the race
discrimination problem is intractable, neither am I willing to concede
that removing identifiable differences is the _only_ way to solve the
gender discrimination problem.

>Women are human, not a seperate, inferior
>species that must be discriminated against on the basis of sex.  There
>is absolutely no reason to give females distinctive names, distinctive
>clothing, and socialize them to act in what every culture considers to
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^      
>be inferior ways, other than to discriminate against women on the
 ^^^^^^^^^^^
>basis of sex. ...

Well, I agree with this, insofar as it is true, but as with language I
would suggest that it might be easier, in some but not all cases, to
change society's considerations about inferiority rather than to
eliminate the differences.  Or better still, preserve the differences
but eliminate the gender-based correlations, so that everyone, female
and male, would have the freedom to dress or act according to the
situation rather than their gender.

I'm not sure what I am saying is really any different from what you
are suggesting, Mark, but as you write it above, it sounds a bit
overstated to me.

hb
-- 
Hank Bovis (hb@Virginia.EDU, hb@Virginia.BITNET)

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