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From: wilson@csli.Stanford.EDU (Nathan Wilson)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Feminism in the Craft
Message-ID: <11030@csli.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 14 Nov 89 21:11:47 GMT
References: <891027.001438600@Prime> <2826@trantor.harris-atd.com> <7381@sdcsvax.UCSD.Edu> <2864@trantor.harris-atd.com>
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hnewstrom@x102a.harris-atd.com (Harvey Newstrom) writes:
>In article <7381@sdcsvax.UCSD.Edu> bloch%mandrill@ucsd.edu (Steve Bloch) writes:
>>hnewstrom@x102a.harris-atd.com (Harvey Newstrom) writes:
>>>[Adler] also says that in her search for covens to research, she found all-female
>>>covens, mixed covens, and gay-male covens, but has never found nor hear of an
>>>all-straight-male coven.  

>>Now, I don't see any a priori reason Wicca should appeal more to gay
>>men than to straight men, or more to women than to men, except that
>>straight men have something "better": powerful, established religions
>>and social structures that tell them they're wonderful.  [....]

>Bingo.  Most religions teach that men are superior to women.  To embrace
>Wicca, a man would have to admit that women are equal.  He also would have to
>admit that being "effeminate" is not inferior to being "masculine".

This seems a bit extreme.  The finding doesnt seem to me to have
anything to do with the appeal of Wicca to straight men vs other
groups.  Dont get me wrong, I strongly believe and know that I could
find an abundance of evidence that those told they have and are given
power-over are less willing than their victims to participate in
groups that destroy that power.  However, this finding doesn't have
anything to say about this belief.  Rather it relates to the questions
of why and what kind of exclusive subgroups form within groups that
are based on equality and inclusivness.  The finding suggests to me
that within such groups the only people to form 'exclusive' subgroups
are those that feel they would be unconsciously or subconsciously
repressed or dominated by people who are more impowered than they
within the dominant culture.  Thus no all-straight-male covens.
The question that occurs to me is what about all-lesbian covens or
all-homosexual covens?  My intuition says that the first exists and
that the second doesn't but it's hard for me to explain why.

Nathan Wilson
Teleos Research
nathan@ai.sri.com