Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jygabler@ucdavis.edu (Jason Gabler) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: HUMAN VERSES SINLESS Message-ID: Date: 10 Nov 89 07:14:49 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of California, Davis Lines: 94 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article ASPRINGMAN@eagle.wesleyan.edu (DAYSPRING) writes: >I have heard a disturbing echo from Christians during my four wonderful years >of new life with Jesus. I have heard it on this newsgroup also. > > _Praise_for_being_human_instead_of_pious._ Not to flame but, I have not heard that from other Christians.... "......and let endurance have its perfect result, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing" (James 1:4 NAS) >Ok, I get it as far as hypocrites go. They act pious but are utterly sinful. >But, more is being said than that. I see the following implications... Those who are "utterly sinful" are most likely NOT hypocrits... Why? Because they are most likely NOT Christians.... >1) Humans are defined as sinners. > > Now, I am sorry to disagree with so many people throughout History, but >humans are not created as sinners. "For all have sinned and fall short the >glory of God." is very true but notice it says sinned, not sinned from >conception. Romans 3:23, in no way implies our birth as a sinful, pre-condemned beings. However do not read into it. Yet, we ARE all sinners. Forget the "moment of that first sin". After the age of accountability, we have ALL knowingly and willfully sinned. So, Rom 3:23 is right.... we are all sinners, and that's all it says. > >2) Humans are confined to sin until heaven. > > To this I ask what the Resurection and the Cross were all about? What >does it mean that our old selves are crucified with Christ and that we are new >creations and that we are washed in the blood of Jesus, white as snow. Why >can't we walk in holiness? Who's to stop us if God is with us? > >3) Those people who are walking in the light are not being praised. > > If anyone should be praised it should be sinless humans not sinful humans. > Sorry, there are NO sinless humans.... > > > Andrew William Springman > Adopted Son of Elohim > Grafted Branch > Tickl'r of the Gitt'r My point is this: we are constantly called to strive for perfections as Christians. That is our goal, to be like Jesus.... But, obviusly we cannot be perfect while in imperfect bodies. Besides we wouldn't really need Jesus if we could be perfect. Do not get caught up in perfection. Remeber the Pharisees! How thier goal became to keep the WHOLE law. Impossible! And as Jesus said, we "forget the weightier matters" when we pay too much attention to these things. Oh, but NEVER forget the "endurance" James tells us to crave. Lastly, remember David. Compared to him, I'm a saint, halo and all :) But had so many blessing from God all thru his life, and had so much thankfulness to give, he definately was a Godly man... Remeber sin is a paradox! WE ought not to sin , but without it we do not need most of Gods gifts, yet He tells us to strive for perfection... (ok Jason, wrack our minds some more :) ..... Andrew, your zealousness is commendable! but do not get distracted. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Gabler Data Communications Group, Computing Services, UC Davis, Davis CA ccjason@castor.ucdavis.edu jygabler@ucdavis.edu edu!ucdavis!jygabler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord, rather than men. ><> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------