Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: cbz@alux6.att.com (Craig B Ziemer) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Satan (was Re: Feasting With the Bridegroom) Message-ID: Date: 10 Nov 89 07:52:22 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 57 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Michael I. Bushnell writes: >Some comments on Satan, expressing my beliefs. > >First, I believe that this world is essentially good. It is *not* >essentially evil, and, as good, God is the final sovreign over all >creation. He didn't give part of it to Satan, he didn't decide that >Satan would rule people. > How do you reconcile your beliefs with God's Word in Genesis 8:21: "And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor, the Lord said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, FOR THE IMAGINATION OF MAN'S HEART IS EVIL FROM HIS YOUTH; neither will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done."" (emphasis mine) Similarly, in Mark 7:21-23 we find: "For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, forni- cation, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licen- tiousness, envy slander, pride, foolishness. ALL THESE EVIL THINGS COME FROM WITHIN, AND THEY DEFILE A MAN." (emphasis mine) I interpret these verses to mean that man, since the fall, is essen- tially evil, not good, which is why we NEED a Savior! >Second, Satan is a personification of our own tendencies to violate >God's will. Satan has no power. My God is all-powerful and does not >surrender to evil, temporarily or permanently. > In Luke 10:18 we read: "And he [Jesus] said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."" I interpret this to mean that Satan is actually a being, not a "person- ification of our own tendencies." * Craig B. Ziemer %% DISCLAIMER: AT&T does not * * AT&T Bell Laboratories %%%%%% officially support what I * * Reading, PA %% just said, in fact, they * * UUCP ADDRESS: alux6!cbz %% rarely do :^) * [The issue is what is meant by "essentially". Classical theology sees evil as a corruption of good, but not as wiping it out. The heart of man is not essentially evil. Man was created in the image of God and pronounced good. Sin does not wipe out the image of God. Otherwise it would no longer be right for Christ to call all men his brothers. What sin does do is tarnish or corrupt the image of God, so that everything we do is to a greater or lesser extent corrupted. The view that man is essentially evil tends very easily to turn into Manicheeism, a dualism that sees good and evil as symmetrical, with God and Satan as equal and opposite forces, both of which were present from eternity. Physical existence and the body are seen as being part of Satan's realm, and essentially evil. This leads to a rejection of sex and marriage, and to a refusal to deal with physical problems such as hunger and suffering. Christianity rejected this concept. --clh]