Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: barry1@ihlpa.att.com (Barry O Olson) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: transubstantiation again - some real concerns Message-ID: Date: 10 Nov 89 07:57:36 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 36 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu I have some observations on doctrine of transubstantiation(catholic eucharist). This is not being posted in the spirit of judgement on those who believe otherwise. I understand a sacrament as some action our Lord commands us to do, or basically implied by His words in obedience to Him. As a charasmatic protestant with no church ties(i have one fish tie:-) just kidding, i read the nt communion of our Lord to be a memmorial and not a continous sacrifice, but i can find backing for this in Hebrews and Romans, if read as a child. The priest is empowered(catholic doctrine) to call down Jesus into the wafer, toenails and all at his consecration(if his intent is correct), right? Now the church(catholic) would say that he can do this everytime and God guarantees it, because He ordained it. God(Jesus) also ordained us to heal the sick (another sacrament) and such. Now, how can the priest presume that Jesus is in the wafer everytime with a guarantee, yet he cannot heal the sick everytime with a guarantee. Remember now, this is the same priest who says he has the power to make the wafer into Jesus. I believe that in the wafer we cannot see Jesus there, but "must take it on faith", but with another sacrament, heal the sick, this cannot be pulled off with the same "take it on faith" assurance precisely because we can see a healing. Could God in His wisdom be showing us (priests, and laity) that no human can guarantee "anything" in the name of God(Jesus), and proves it by "not" healing people at every prayer of a priest or congregation no matter "how" sincere. This to me should humble alot of priests, bishops, cardinals, popes, believers, or what have you, and send up red flags everywhere when someone claims they can control God, or they have some secret power that others do not have, it's a mystery thing. Barry olson