Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!aplcen!haven!uvaarpa!mcnc!ecsvax.uncecs.edu!dukeac!wolves!ggw From: ggw@wolves.uucp (Gregory G. Woodbury) Newsgroups: comp.misc Subject: Re: Author seeks help Message-ID: <1989Nov16.052001.1509@wolves.uucp> Date: 16 Nov 89 05:20:01 GMT References: <14468@well.UUCP> <509@rsiatl.UUCP> <227@jove.dec.com> <1989Nov11.225859.16964@cs.rochester.edu> Reply-To: ggw@wolves.UUCP (Gregory G. Woodbury) Organization: Wolves Den UNIX BBS Lines: 74 In article <1989Nov11.225859.16964@cs.rochester.edu> (Sean Colbath) writes: >In article <227@jove.dec.com> reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) writes: > >I think that Brian Reid has hit upon part of the problem - that of language >and the phrasing of Kate's posting. When I read Kate's article, I was rather >angry too - I have been "hacking" since 8th grade (I am 22 now, and hoping >to go on to Grad school in CS) and (for the most part ;-) my activities have >been entirely honorable. (Gee, all these YOUNG people, is 36 passe? ;-) > C'mon, people. Marvin Minsky was a >hacker. McCarthy & Sussman were hackers. Bill Joy was a hacker. These >people don't exactly fit that mold. There are female hackers - I know women >that I would gladly describe with that word. > Let's not forget: Grace Hopper, John von Neuman, Eckert&Mauchley, Ken Thompson, Steve Bellovin, Tom Truscott, etc.... >> > >> My own answer to my version of Katie's question is that we hackers, like >> all professionals, have an obligation to respect the rights of others and >> an obligation to help further our profession. A hacker who goes on the >> wrong side of the law is no different from a veterinarian or a bible >> salesman who uses his professional skills for unethical gain. : : >Ha - some sort of argument for a "programmer's bar" or a "hippocratic oath >of programming." I like the last term - especially with the prevalence of >computer viruses today. Instead of a deafening silence, the net should >provide Kate with responses that show what kind of a book we would like to >see written: one that shows that the word hacker is not loaded only with >negative connotations, but has more positive ones than negative. >> Brian Reid >Sean Colbath In actuality, there is a strong movement underway to strengthen the existing "certification" programs that exist in computing, and perhaps to require that all persons programming for federal contracts/grants/etc. be certified. This is not, *per se*, a Bad Thing, but there needs to be a very strong revision of the current definitions used by the certification programs. I seriously doubt that many of the illustrious names mentioned herein could fully pass the existing "Certified Data Processor" or similar exam programs without a *LOT* of difficulty. The preliminary information that I have received about these programs indicates that the main emphasis of the programs is to provide some kind of reassurance to the BUSINESS community that the person holding the title knows about the BUSINESS end of computing, which most of those reading this have little or no interest in. Certainly, I would have to learn a tremendous mountain of trivial information about COBOL, RPG, and mainframe environments to obtain the CDP that would be totally useless in the UN*X and network environments that we use. To make things worse, a CDP is the *minimum* sort of thing that they are considering for the "guru" types of positions that some of our leading net citizens enjoy. If there are further developments in the certification process that I have missed, I would dearly love to be corrected, BUT as the concept stands it is almost a fate worse than death to the academic guru. Oh, in terms of the "hacker" vs. "cracker" controversy.... Does it really matter what the names used are? The old definition of "hacker" could fairly easily be replaced with "wizard" or "guru" (despite the recent flamefest in comp.unix.wizards about the qualifications for that title) and let the unwashed/uninitiated use whatever terms they like. As a proud owner of the old style "hacker" accolade, I'm not happy about the abuse and misappropriation of the word, but I'd almost rather be able to self-claim the term "wizard" rather than have to have someone else bestow it. (Of course there should be a fair sprinkle of ;-)'s here and there.) -- Gregory G. Woodbury Sysop/owner Wolves Den UNIX BBS, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...dukeac!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw@ac.duke.edu ggw%wolves@ac.duke.edu Phone: +1 919 493 1998 (Home) +1 919 684 6126 (Work) [The line eater is a boojum snark! ]