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From: chrisp@regenmeister.uucp (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Programmer productivity
Message-ID: <34819@regenmeister.uucp>
Date: 22 Nov 89 23:06:27 GMT
References: <16170@duke.cs.duke.edu>
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From article <16170@duke.cs.duke.edu>, by crm@romeo.cs.duke.edu (Charlie Martin):
> In article <34796@regenmeister.uucp> chrisp@regenmeister.uucp (Chris Prael) writes:
>>Are there metrics to measure the productivity of electronic engineers?  
>>No?  
> Sure there are.
>>Then how about measuring the productivity of mechanical engineers?  
>>Another blank? 
> Nope.  Happens all the time.
>>Perhaps they measure the productivity of civil engineers 
>>some way?  No again?  
> Sorry, but civil engineers as well.
>>Perhaps a pattern can be seen here.
> Yes, I do think you're right: there is a pattern.  It obviously isn't
> the one that you expect.

Perhaps I over simplified.  I was referring to objective measures
commonly used by competant professionals.  I was not referring to
hypotheses that have never managed to escape academia.  Sorry to have 
confused you.

The term metric is generally taken to mean a number arrived at by a
completely "objective" and simple algorithm.  I believe lines of
finished code per day were mentioned in the posting to which I
responded.

> I'm a little bit sorry to take this approach, but I think you'll find
> that there is some kind of way to measure the productivity, and to
> estimate based on that productivity, in every engineering field and
> many other fields as well

First, I did not say, nor imply, that there was no way to estimate a
project.  There is one and it is commonly used in each of the fields I
listed as well as in software engineering.  Estimation of engineering
projects is a complex process that is practiced effectively by only a 
small percentage of the more senior professionals in most engineering
fields.

> (for example, the common rule of thumb for
> technical writing is one staff day per completed page of camera-ready
> text.)

Simple tools for simple users, eh?

> But to claim that other engineering fields have no measures of
> estimating techniques, and (by implication) that it is foolish for
> software engineering to look for suitable ones, is probably suitable for
> fertilizer after suitable composting.

I claimed, and still do, that other fields of engineering do not attempt
to fool themselves with simple minded numbers.  Every project lead and
manager "measures" the productivity of the staff working with him/her.
That measure is one's self.  One estimates how long a task would have
taken one to do, adjusts for assumed relative competance, and compares
that to what has actually happened.
 
I gave some thought to responding to the rest of your posting.  I
finally remembered that one should not kick puppies or bash kids.  Get
out in the real world and get yourself some experience.  In five to ten
years, if you find a good mentor, are fairly bright, and work hard, you
will start to have some knowlege of what you are talking about.  

Good luck.

Chris Prael