Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!voder!pyramid!athertn!joshua
From: joshua@athertn.Atherton.COM (Flame Bait)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: The White Paper
Keywords: RPC, networking
Message-ID: <14983@joshua.athertn.Atherton.COM>
Date: 25 Nov 89 21:30:26 GMT
References: <31904@cci632.UUCP> <46f42a6a.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM>
Reply-To: joshua@Atherton.COM (Flame Bait)
Organization: Atherton Technology, Sunnyvale, CA
Lines: 82

We are talking about Apollo/HP's white paper comparing Apollo's Networking
system and Sun's Networking system.  The version of the paper which I have
is dated Jan. 1988.  If a new version has come out since then, my comments
would be out of date.

mishkin@apollo.HP.COM (Nathaniel Mishkin) writes:

>Let me make a few things clear:  First, it is based on my knowledge about
>current product offerings.  

Had you actually written any Sun RPC programs at the time you wrote the paper?
I got the impression that the author of the White Paper had not actually used
Sun RPCs. 

>Second, I take personal responsibility for
>the content.  This is NOT some official pronouncement of HP.  

Too late for that.  The copy I got about 10 months ago from Apollo has 
Apollo's name all over it, and does not have your name on it at all.
It was an "official pronouncement" of Apollo then :-).

>If anyone has any complaints, comments, or corrections, please let me
>know and I will address them as soon as I possibly can.

0. The paper is out of date by two years at least.  Many things have chagned
   since it was written.

1. The paper is marketing propaganda with a thin veneer of technical knowledge.

2. Never use the paper's arguments in a debate with someone who understands
   Sun's RPC: you'll be cut to shreads.  The facts about Sun's RPC are often
   out of date or inaccurate, the facts about Apollo's RPC are often 
   technically acurate, but totally misleading.

There are two ways to compare Sun's and Apollo's networking systems, 
technically and intuitively.  Technically would take many pages to handle in
detail, but here is a quick inituitive comparison:

Apollo's networking system is like VMS's file system; Sun's networking system 
is like UNIX's file system.

    VMS is a file system of features.  It directly supports all kinds of 
    special purpose files, it has record based files and stream based files,
    all kinds of files.  UNIX only has one kind of file, but it is flexible
    and easy to use. VMS has features; UNIX has simplicity.  

    If you make a feature by feature comparison, Apollo's networking system
    has more features than Sun's.  But, if you want simplicity and ease of
    use, then Sun's is the winner.

Apollo's RPC is like PASCAL; Sun's RPC is like C.

    Since it was designed as a teaching language, PASCAL forces you to write
    programs the way the designer wanted programs written.  C is a language 
    designed to to what the programmer wants, right or wrong.  PASCAL says 
    "this is the best way to do things", C says "here is a flexible language, 
    do what you want".
    
    For example, Apollo's RPC forces you to use their beefed up UDP transport
    protocol.  Sun's RPC allows you to use UDP or TCP as a transport protocols,
    your choise.  Apollo makes it very difficult to use any interface
    language except NIDL.  Sun provides RPCGEN, but also makes it easy to
    roll your own interface language, if you want to.  Apollo makes it very 
    difficult to use any data representation except their's (NDR).  Sun makes
    it easy to replace their representation (XDR), if you want to.

Finally,  Sun's RPC system has always been an open system; Apollo's is just 
now opening up (and even now, is opening in a marketing/buzzword sense of
the word).

    The know this is an emotional issue, but lets face it.  Sun's RPC source
    code has been freely distributable for three or four years.  Apollo's
    source is still not freely distributable.  Apollo uses a proprietary,
    private communications protocol.  Sun uses public protocols when possible,
    and publishes their protocols, when they are forced to create their own.

disclaimer: I do not work for Sun or Apollo.  I have never worked for Sun or
Apollo.  I have used both Sun's and Apollo's RPC systems, but not their 
complete networking sytems.  I speak for me: no one else.

Joshua Levy                          joshua@atherton.com  home:(415)968-3718
                        {decwrl|sun|hpda}!athertn!joshua  work:(408)734-9822