Xref: utzoo news.admin:7749 news.groups:14954 comp.mail.uucp:3789 comp.os.vms:19894 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cwjcc!hal!ncoast!allbery From: allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) Newsgroups: news.admin,news.groups,comp.mail.uucp,comp.os.vms Subject: Re: New newsgroup hierarchy Message-ID: <1989Nov23.011913.9718@NCoast.ORG> Date: 23 Nov 89 01:19:13 GMT References: <409@sci34hub.UUCP> Reply-To: allbery@ncoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) Followup-To: news.admin Organization: North Coast Public Access UN*X, Cleveland, OH Lines: 113 First we get that extended unilateral flame-war from Greg@Lawnet, now this load of nonsense: As quoted from <409@sci34hub.UUCP> by gary@sci34hub.UUCP (Gary Heston): +--------------- | My gut feeling is that somebody who already has the equivalent of | most of this in place (in the comp groups) wants the 90% (guesstimate) | of us who don't run VMS to support the 10% who do with a significant | part of our resources. +--------------- Your gut feeling is based on a misapprehension. +--------------- | > Obviously no one can just stop them ..... | | Ever hear of the "rmgroup" command? I think that'll stop them from | my site--considering that we have no DEC hardware in my division, | I can't see supporting something that duplicates part of what I'm | getting already. +--------------- You have this right in any case, but even more so in the case of a separate hierarchy. +--------------- | Further, this is USENET, not VMS-SUPPORTED-BY-REAL-OS-NET. We have +--------------- IDIOT ALERT!!! Keep your OS-religious-jihad beliefs out of it. +--------------- | guidlines about forming new newsgroups. We're all supposed to follow | these guidelines, partly to operate in concensus--i.e., operate in | a manner that is generally agreed upon by the net users and admins. +--------------- Correct. IN THE USENET HIERARCHIES. To wit: the guidelines apply ONLY in the following seven hierarchies: comp, sci, talk, news, soc, rec, misc. ALL OTHER HIERARCHIES ARE NOT PART OF THE USENET. +--------------- | This hierarchy was not voted upon by the net, much less any of the | sub-groups in it. It won't be coming into this site for two real +--------------- It doesn't have to be. Oh, yes, I know, I constantly run into arguments about how the Usenet is the programs and the data flowing over the phone lines as a result of those programs. WRONG. By this argument, Ohio Bell is the Fidonet *and* the Usenet in the state of Ohio, and similar for all the other RBOCs and independent phone companies. THE TRANSPORT MECHANISM IS NOT THE USENET. Remember that! If it took your fancy, you could create your own hierarchy, no questions asked. +--------------- | 1) It is not an "official" newsgroup, within one of the | existing hierarchies, approved by the net as a whole. +--------------- "Official" nonsense. Official doesn't exist; even Spaf's list of newsgroups is nothing mroe than a guide for those who want it. And in any case, the rules of the Usenet (remember the seven hierarchies I named above) don't apply to any other hierarchy. When's the last time the "net" votes on an alt group? A biz group? A bionet group? Or should all of those hierarchies curl up and die too because nobody solicited your opinion before creating them? Your opinion matters only insofar as it concerns your willingness or lack of same to carry the hierarchy on your site. +--------------- | formed here, and that's not going to happen. If the initiators | of this vmsnet thing are confident that it'd be voted in favor | of, why wasn't it discussed and voted in properly? +--------------- Has it ever occurred to your overinflated, egotistical Unix-bigotry that DECUS doesn't give a d*mn what you think about it or whether it's carried on a Unix site? Get real. They are using the TRANSPORT MECHANISM. They are going to enforce their own rules via a central authority (DECUS), which nobody on the mainstream Usenet would accept in any case. As a result, they should -- and will -- use a separate hierarchy and therefore don't need the permission of every egotistical little site admin in the world in order to run their network. +--------------- | Agreed. Very much so. What was that site name, again--I need to | write a little script about it....something with an "rm" in it... +--------------- Gee, am I supposed to ask your permission before I create expnet.all? Before I post? Before I read news? Before I sneeze? DECUS couldn't care less about your unwillingness to carry vmsnet. That's why it's a separate hierarchy! Get your facts straight and *think* before you start flaming everyone for not getting your permission before doing their own thing without interfering with you. ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery allbery@NCoast.ORG, BALLBERY (MCI Mail), ALLBERY (Delphi) uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery ncoast!allbery@hal.cwru.edu bsa@telotech.uucp *(comp.sources.misc mail to comp-sources-misc[-request]@backbone.site, please)* *Third party vote-collection service: send mail to allbery@uunet.uu.net (ONLY)* expnet.all: Experiments in *net management and organization. Mail me for info.