Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!iuvax!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: lab@fibercom.com (Lance Beckner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved Always Saved Message-ID: Date: 17 Nov 89 09:45:57 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: FiberCom, Inc., Roanoke, Virginia Lines: 160 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , davidbu@tekigm2.men.tek.com (David Buxton) writes: > > reason to re-open that discussion. So, I wonder if there is > anyone who subscribes to the Arminian view and at the same time > subscribes to "once saved always saved"? I really don't want to get involved in an argument or debate. I don't have the time to do so right now. So let me just say up front that I know there will be many who disagree with me. That is fine. You are more than welcome to post your disagreements. But please don't expect me to respond. Chances are that I have heard most of your arguments in the past. The only reason that I am posting is to answer the question above as best I can, given my current understanding of scripture and relationship with the Lord. Disclaimer: Please insert "IMHO" wherever you see it as being appropriate. I. I do not believe in predestination. At least not in the sense that most people think of when they talk of predestination. Although admittedly, I am still trying to iron out this issue. I believe that God has made a legitimate offer to all of mankind. Whosoever believes in God's provision for man's sin problem, and accepts Jesus Christ as Savior, will be saved. II. I think we need to look first at the basics of salvation. That is, how and why are we saved. What is it that we must do to be saved. I'm sure that most people are aware of the fact that we are saved by God's grace through our faith in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:8,9). That we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ (John 3:16, Acts 16:31). And that there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation (Titus 3:5). III. Now we need to look at what exactly happens when we accept Jesus Christ as Savior. And how (if) that changes the rest of our life. I see basically two things happening when we come to trust Christ as Savior. (1) Our old self is put to death. (2) We are "born again" -- given new life in Christ Jesus. Let's look at Romans: 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 6:2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. we walk in newness of life because we have been crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20). God then makes us alive (Eph 2:4,5). we are alive in the spirit because we have been born again. 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. our old man was crucified with Christ. The old is dead and we are given new life. 6:7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 6:9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. IV. As I see it, once God crucifies that "old man". He will not restore him to life. Also, when we are born again, we are born into God's family. We become children of God (Eph 1:5, 1 John 3:1). Sure, we still sin (Rom 7:15-25), but that does not change our status as God's children (1 John 1:9, 2:1). As an example, I could use my own children. They may move away, stop writing and calling, even change their name. But they will still be my children. V. We need to keep in mind, that just as there is nothing *we* can do to *earn* our salvation, there is nothing *we* can do to *keep* our salvation. If we begin to believe that our salvation (earning or keeping) is dependent on something *we* do, we are falling into the trap of works. Paul encountered this problem with the Church in Galatia: O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3:1-3) (btw, if we truly believe that we are saved by believing/accepting, then the only way we *could* lose our salvation, would be to stop believing and start rejecting. In which case I would seriously question whether or not that person was ever truly saved because I can't imagine anyone rejecting Christ *after* He had come into their life.) VI. A few other scriptural reasons why I believe the way that I do: Romans 8:38, 39 tells us that nothing can separate us from the love of God. In John 6:37, Jesus says that those that come to Him, He will by no means cast out. In 1 Cor 5:5, Paul tells the Church to deliver the sinning believer to Satan "...for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may saved..." 1 Cor 3:10-15 tells us that although our works may all be burned up, and we consequently suffer loss of rewards, we will still be saved. Well, that's my opinion for what it is worth. I hope that I answered your question. I hope also that one can see that eternal security and free will are not contradictory. At least not from this perspective. Peace, Lance -- Lance A. Beckner INTERNET: lab@fibercom.com FiberCom, Inc. UUCP: ...!uunet!fibercom!lab P.O. Box 11966 FAX: (703) 342-5961 Roanoke, VA 24022-1966 PHONE: (703) 342-6700