Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!aplcen!samsung!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bunker!garys@decvax.uucp (Gary M. Samuelson) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Translation (and still "Re: I Corinthians 7:1") Message-ID: Date: 19 Nov 89 19:48:16 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, an Olivetti Company, Shelton, Ct Lines: 115 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article bnr-fos!bmers58!davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) writes: >In article dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes: >>I am not intending to be sarcastic; this is the actual (absurd) consequence >>of the argument you present. >Your entire reply has a very logical aura about it, but it has failed >to answer my question. I shall, therefore, ask it again. Where do the >Scriptures teach that great earthly wisdom is beneficial when it comes >to their interpretation? Intelligence, like everything else we have, is a gift from God. And, like everything else we have been given, I believe that God expects us to use it as good stewards. In Paul's discourses on gifts in I Corinthians and Ephesians, he points out that not everyone has the same gift(s), but that each person should use the gift God has given. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman who needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." I Tim 4:2 (or is it II Tim 4:2?) "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said" I Cor 14:?) Also in I Corinthians, note what Paul said to the brethren who were taking each other to court. Essentially, he asked if there was no one among them with enough wisdom or understanding to judge between brothers, such that they had to resort to an ungodly court. "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all without reproach." James 1:? >You will find no such statement anywhere in the entire Bible. I automatically mistrust any argument that requires knowing the entire Bible all at once. Unless you have memorized the whole Bible, and have instant and perfect recall, not to mention a perfect understanding of every word therein, and in fact have a great deal of the earthly wisdom you say you reject, you cannot know for certainty that no such statement is anywhere in the Bible. For the statement which you say is not there may be in the one passage which you have not memorized, or may not understand perfectly. >You will, however, find several Scriptures that state >exactly the opposite. 1 Corinthians 2:14 says "But the natural man >receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness >unto him: neither can he know {them}, because they are spiritually >discerned.". Proverbs 3:5-6 says "Trust in the LORD with all thine >heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways >acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.". You seem to be cutting out your own support from under you. What would you do if I told you that your argument sounds very well reasoned? Would you thank me for the compliment, or repent? Put another way, how can I know that you are not leaning on your own understanding when you try to explain what these passages mean? How can you know that I am leaning on my own understanding if I say that you misunderstand what these passages mean? >I would also like to point out that a serious flaw in the belief that >we need earthly wisdom to understand the Scriptures is that no baby >could ever be saved. Babies don't need to be saved. "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. (Mt 18:10)" >It would also preclude the saving of adults who, >for one reason or another, possess severely impaired mental abilities. See above. >Fortunately God is not a respecter of persons and our salvation does >not depend on our own individual abilities. True enough. But God gave us those abilities, and will require an accounting regarding how we used them. >You asked why we need a Bible at all if we do not need to possess >earthly wisdom? I can think of at least two reasons. You are cutting your own support again. By your own claim, we must not put any stock into anything that starts, "I [] think," but only what starts with, "The Lord says." >The first is that >God wants the unsaved of this world to be confronted with His truths so >that they cannot claim that they were left in the dark and so that He >can clearly demonstrate that they cannot be understood by anyone other >than those whom He has elected. That is self-contradictory. If it is true that God's truths cannot be understood by anyone other than those whom he has elected, then the unsaved of this world can certainly claim that they were left in the dark. If God's truths cannot be understood by anyone other than the elect, then we cannot know if we *are* the elect, since we will not be able to understand the God's truths unless we are of the elect. Of course, anything I say you can reject on the grounds that I am leaning on my own understanding. Convenient. Gary Samuelson an read the letters to the churches in Revelation and not conclude that some of them were about to throw away their salvation. More on that later. Gary Samuelson