Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved Always Saved Message-ID: Date: 24 Nov 89 03:28:32 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 73 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Dave B.: You make the following statement in a recent post: > >To say 'once saved always saved' is like saying 'once married always >married'. I can be secure in my marriage but I can also walk away from >it. I can be secure in Jesus Christ, my perfect partner. I can also walk >away from this relationship. We all have the freedom to choose Him or >to walk away from Him at any time. God is Love and a key facet of that >love is freedom. Let me pose a couple of questions. Suppose that I accept Jesus in the sense of the Greek word for believe (pistis). Then at some point down the line, I walk away. Can I come back to Christ and be forgiven? Some would say yes. Personally, I don't think that it is that easy to fall away and come under the condemnation again. Notwithstanding Hebrews 6:1-6, if a Christian falls away from the Faith, I really have to wonder what his faith was based upon. In my understanding of believing, I find that what we are talking about is much more than a mere mental consent. We are talking about a commitment at a much deeper level than mere mental consent. Such a commitment is not lightly overturned, even by the person holding that commitment. We can do like children do with their parents. We can try to assert our "free-will" outside the mature understanding of our parents. We can ride our bike down that steep hill that the other kids do and that our parents told us not to do. And when we crash and hurt ourselves and rack-up the bike, do our parents disown us and refuse to tend our wounds? If our parents, who are human, won't do this, then I fail to see God doing likewise when we stray from Him to do our own thing. This doesn't negate some discipline for disobedience, but we are not disinherited and our wounds are tended. Furthermore, if salvation is a gift freely given by God, then I doubt that God would take back the gift. Yet, at the same time, Brother, I don't see a cheap grace. Our salvation is not a light matter. It was won at a great cost. To gain salvation also costs us. It costs us our life. We must surrender our life to Christ, freely--as freely as the gift is given. Such a cost is not to be taken lightly, though I fear that it often is. When we go to buy a house, do we not sit down and count the cost involved? So we should also do when coming to the Lord and Saviour of us all. Our commitment to Him must come from the depths of our being, nothing less will suffice. Thus, when we read the words of Jesus in John 3:16, we must understand what is actually being said there. The Greek for believe is pistis (commitment), and begging the pardon of you and the other readers of this group, which leads me to rephrase the passage to read thus: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever commits himself to Him [the Son] should not perish, but have everlasting life. IMHO, the words of Paul echo very loudly: For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, our Lord. (Romans 8:38, 39 KJV) For me, this cinches it. Peace, Gene