Path: utzoo!mnetor!tmsoft!torsqnt!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: haroldt@nexus.yorku.ca (Harold Tomlinson) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Testing God Message-ID: Date: 25 Nov 89 09:20:40 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: York Computing Services Lines: 63 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Hello :) I'm new to this so I don't know just what the average stand is here. I too would be very interested in what the Hebrew indicates. I hope to study Greek and Hebrew next year simply because of the deficiencies in the English language. We use the term 'test' and sometimes the word 'try' to mean examine in a way that is a challenge. A test of your skill, a trying situation, are things set forth to challenge you in an attitude of doubt. Then we also use the same terms to mean 'check it out'. My conclusion from the Book is that we should trust Yahweh. Don't challenge Him with prayers like "God, I'll do this for You if You'll just do this for me." Don't test His patience... "Oh, God, just one more chance..." But on the other hand, check it out. See for yourself if He's not all that He claims to be. In the reference you gave (Malachi 3:10) the Lord is promising that He will give to those who give to Him (what He already ownes and what we owe Him). And this has been proven (tried) over and over again in my life. Take today for example. I am literally flat broke. To the point where I couldn't buy fuel to go anywhere tomorrow. But. This months pay has come in early. Luck? Not likely. Just God's good timing. If it happened once, I'd say I was lucky. But this happens repeatedly. I'm not testing God by squandering all my funds and trusting Him for more, but He has always provided for me when I let Him be in control. Jehovah Jira (My God will provide), Harold. ps. anyone know the Hebrew words used there and in other places for test? -- Harold Tomlinson Computing Advisor Academic Computing Services York University 4700 Keele St., North York (Toronto) Ontario, Canada. M3J 1P3 haroldt@orion.yorku.ca haroldt@vm1.yorku.ca haroldt@nexus.yorku.ca [I don't know anything about the Hebrew, but it seems to me that there are two pretty obviously different contexts involved. In Mal 3:10 the "test" consists of people doing what God commands, and verifying that the results are good. This seems rather different than the sort of manufactured test that Christ refuses in Mat 4:7. Yet another type of "test" is Ex 17:7. There is seems that what is being tried is the Lord's patience. That is, it seems that people have lost faith in him. "they put the Lord to the proof by saying 'Is the LORD among us or not?'" This sounds to me like a rhetorical question, with the implied answer "no". NJPS translates "tried the Lord", which I read in the sense of "were a trial to the Lord". I think it would be wrong to come to the conclusion that God opposes people honestly questioning him. The implication of Job seems to be that God prefers honest hostility to easy answers. Judges 6:36 is an example of someone testing God without any obvious disapproval. --clh]