Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: crowe@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Daniel Crowe) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Testing God Message-ID: Date: 27 Nov 89 02:52:20 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: City College Of New York Lines: 87 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article palosaari@oxy.edu (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari) writes: >In numerous places in the old and new testament it states not to test God. >Yet in Malachi 3:10 it states: >"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my >house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty," and see if I will not >throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you >will not have room enough for it." >Here God tells us to test Him. I looked at all the other "testing" passages >I could find, and each time it either tells us to not test God, or states >that God tests man. >Does anyone know why it would state in this one passage that it's ok to >test God? Is the Hebrew here different perhaps? I looked up the word translated "test" ("prove" in the KJV) in Malachi 3:10 in *Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible* and came up with the following information: I. The Hebrew word translated "test" ("prove") can be transliterated as ^ (note: this is an accent on the letter a below.) bachan (pronounced "baw-khan'") which is a primitive root meaning "to test" (especially metals) or generally and figuatively "to investigate". ^ A. bachan appears the following 29 times in the Old Testament: occurance verse KJV NIV subject object 1 Gen 42:15 proved tested (Joseph) brothers 2 16 " " " brothers' words 3 1Ch 29:17 triest test God (David's) heart 4 Job 7:18 try " (God) man 5 12:11 " " ear words 6 23:10 tried tested (God) Job 7 34: 3 trieth tests ear words 8 36 tried tested (God?) Job 9 Ps 7: 9 trieth searches God minds & hearts 10 11: 4 try examine YHWH's eyes sons of men 11 5 trieth examines YHWH righteous 12 17: 3 proved probe " heart 13 26: 2 examine test " me (David) 14 66:10 proved tested God us (?) 15 81: 7 " " " Israelites 16 95: 9 " " Israelites God 17 139:23 try test God me (David) 18 Pr 17: 3 trieth tests YHWH heart 19 Jer 6:27 try test you(Jeremiah?) Israelites' ways 20 9: 7 " " YHWH Israelites 21 11:20 triest " " heart & mind 22 12: 3 tried " " Jeremiah's thoughts 23 17:10 try examine " mind 24 20:12 triest " " righteous 25 Eze 21:13 trial testing " will surely come 26 Zec 13: 9 try test " (Israelites) 27 9 tried ---- ---- gold 28 Mal 3:10 prove test (Israelites) YHWH 29 15 tempt challenge those who God challenge ^ B. Bachan appears to be neutral in and of itself; any positive or negative implication must be derived from the context. ^ II. I was able to locate the following 3 derivatives of bachan, each of which occurs only once: ^ ^ A. bachown' (pronounced "baw-khone'") which means "an assayer of metals". It appears in Jeremiah 6:27 where it is mistakenly translated "tower" in the KJV. (See C below) ^ B. bochan (pronounced "bo'-khan") which means "trial". It appears in Isaiah 28:16 in a prophecy of Christ. "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a *tested* stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed." (NIV) C. bachan (pronounced "bakh'-an") which means "watchtower". It appears in Isaiah 32:14. (Note that there are no accents on bachan.) -- Daniel (God is my judge) | "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to physics graduate student | speak and slow to become angry, for man's City College of New York | anger does not bring about the righteous crowe@sci.ccny.cuny.edu | life that God desires." (James 1:19-20,NIV)