Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!db.toronto.edu!jdd
Newsgroups: comp.arch
From: jdd@db.toronto.edu (John DiMarco)
Subject: Re: X-terms v. PCs v. Workstations
Message-ID: <1989Nov28.125728.6774@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
References: <1128@m3.mfci.UUCP> <1989Nov22.175128.24910@ico.isc.com> <3893@scolex.sco.COM> <39361@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> <17305@netnews.upenn.edu> <1989Nov25.000120.18261@world.std.com> <1989Nov27.144016.23181@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> <1989Nov27.213238.24130@cs.rochester.edu>
Date: 28 Nov 89 17:57:29 GMT

quiroz@cs.rochester.edu (Cesar Quiroz) writes:

>In <1989Nov27.144016.23181@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, jdd@db.toronto.edu (John DiMarco) wrote:
>| A centralized authority -- if it is responsive to the needs of its users --
>| has the capability to offer better facilities and support at a lower price.
>Centralized resources are naturally seen as loci of power, not as
>sources of service.  If you can fix the human tendency to build
>empires, you can make centralized resources more palatable to those
>who could otherwise prefer to not to be bothered with asking you for
>permissions.  
Power isn't necessarily a bad thing. If those with power (i.e. control over
the computing resources) use this power to serve the users' needs, then 
everybody is happy. If a centralized computing authority does not serve
the users' needs, then it is not fulfilling its intended role. Unless the
members of this authority use their 'power' for the good of their users, THEY
ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOBS. Judging from some of these postings, there seems
to be quite a few centralized computing authorities who are not doing their
jobs.

>| 	Maximum single-point usage: If each group must purchase its own 
>| 				    computing equipment, at no point in time
>| 	can any group utilize more computing resources than that group owns.
>| 	But in a centralized environment, the maximum amount of computing
>| 	resources available to any one group increases to the total computing
>| 	resources available to the centralized authority...

>Maybe true of highways, not true of computers.  It is not at all
>clear that just because you need extra cycles and they are free
>after sunset you will be graciously granted those.  You may have to
>beg to be permitted in the building after dark, etc...

If everyone is being served from the same big pot, what one group doesn't
use is available to everyone else. 

>| 	Imagine if your group could use the idle cycles of the group
>| 	down the hall.  Wouldn't that be nice?

>Sure.  Just cut the middleman and talk to the people down the hall.
>You wouldn't suggest imposing on them, right?  And they may want to
>have a chance at sharing your coffeemaker, or have a quick run on
>your laserprinter.  Why do you need to introduce a third,
>unproductive, party in this nice scenario?

If both you and the party down the hall use the same large computing resources,
what they don't use, you can use. If both you and the party down the hall
have private computing resources, you have little or no access to their
free cycles, and vice versa. 

>Some of your scenarios oppose a benevolent tyranny that controls all
>the expertise against a decadent anarchy where no one has enough
>smarts to tie his own shoes.  There are intermediate steps in
>between, you know.  Like places where the staff responds to the
>users, instead of the other way around.  Also, distributed
>responsibility for your own resources does not preclude a
>cooperative condition, open to sharing when so needed.

Distributed systems seem to lead to anarchy. The more distributed, the more
anarchy. There are only so many people who have enough smarts to tie their
own shoes, and in a distributed setup, where do you put them? If a small
group is lucky enough to have a guru/wizard, that group is ok. Otherwise, 
that group will have serious problems. Under a centralized setup, it's much 
easier to ensure that the computing facility has a few guru/wizards around.

>-- 
>                                      Cesar Augusto Quiroz Gonzalez
>                                      Department of Computer Science
>                                      University of Rochester
>                                      Rochester,  NY 14627



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