Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!usc!apple!sun-barr!decwrl!ucbvax!hoptoad!tim
From: tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: How to Argue Technical Points (was Re: Tail patches)
Message-ID: <9090@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: 27 Nov 89 18:44:59 GMT
References: <5212@internal.Apple.COM> <32982@mirror.UUCP> <5248@internal.Apple.COM> <9012@hoptoad.uucp> <5296@internal.Apple.COM> <9041@hoptoad.uucp> <5352@internal.Apple.COM>
Reply-To: tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney)
Organization: Eclectic Software, San Francisco
Lines: 65

I don't really want to continue this, but after several days of sitting
on my hands, I think there are a few points in Whiplash's message that
shouldn't go without comment.

In article <5352@internal.Apple.COM> chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) writes:
>I'd be more than happy to continue the 
>discussion, although I believe it will be much easier when System 7 final 
>ships, since at that point the details of the Alias Manager, et al. will 
>be much clearler.

In other words, we don't care what comments you might have on the
merits of this new feature.  It's going in the new system anyway and it
will be just the way it always was going to be; just keep your
suggestions to yourself and let us tell you how things are.

It's obvious that at no time do the Apple representatives consider the
dialogue with the developer community to be two-way.  Any criticism or
complaint that may be raised is there to be waved aside, not to be
taken into account as a possible influence on future software
directions.

Tim:
>and people are coming
>to ignore your conclusions even in the very rare cases where you
>sincerely try to prove them correct.

Paul:
>For whom exactly are you speaking?  So far, you're the only one making 
>these claims.

False.  I've received an e-mail message from a person who mentioned
making exactly the same complaints about you here, with the same level
of non-response.  And as I already pointed out, a number of people have
commented here on the failure of your messages to adequately address
issues like exactly why tail patches are wrong, the non-run-time nature
of library code, and the binding nature of instructions in Inside
Macintosh, as well as my points on problems with file ids.  I guess
you've blocked these people's messages from your mind; inconvenient,
aren't they?

That people are coming to ignore your positions is obvious; it is, in
fact, explicitly what you've been bitching about.  Well, Paul, there's
a reason for it -- you almost never bother to back up what you say.  If
you don't have a technical argument to add, then you should avoid
contributing pointless flames.

Paul:
>Perhaps I'm like an army drill sargeant or something: I'm harsh, I'm
>stern, I'm a pain in the ass, but it's all to benefit the person being
>disciplined.
 
Tim:
>Gee, Daddy, thanks a lot.

Paul:
>Gee, Tim, what a substantive rebuttal.

Thanks for noticing.  Adults do not act in loco parentis to other
adults, except as a way of expressing contempt.
-- 
Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com

"It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied;
 better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied."
	-- John Stuart Mill, UTILITARIANISM (1863)