Xref: utzoo news.groups:15149 misc.headlines:11898 talk.politics.misc:38172 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cheops.cis.ohio-state.edu!karl From: karl@cheops.cis.ohio-state.edu (Karl Kleinpaste) Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc Subject: Re: YUPPIES, QUEERS and BEAN COUNTERS Message-ID: Date: 28 Nov 89 19:37:30 GMT References: Sender: news@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu Followup-To: news.groups,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc Organization: Ohio State Computer Science Lines: 117 In-reply-to: waldron@newport.rutgers.edu's message of 28 Nov 89 17:37:44 GMT waldron@newport.rutgers.edu writes: UNITEX is alive a well and living in the 'etherNet'..... All rumors reporting our demise our greatly exaggerated. So much for theatrics.... Hardly. Most of the rest of your article consisted entirely of theatrics. It started with your article's Subject: and goes downhill from there. Case in point, especially the 2nd parenthesized comment: Apparently, there is a major shift and change underway in our society... like the wunderjhare of radical emotive therapy (ala Albert Ellis) and what spawned a new age of self-involved, self-referential brats...voila ---> the age of yuppie enlightenment (actually an oximoron but useful for effect). All this will hopefully pass very soon. "Oh Albert...can this really be the end.. to be stuck inside a network with the braindead blues again..." Berke Breathed might be able to pull such stuff off, but you do not appear to be similarly gifted. Having just read Dorothy Nicklus' side of the issue, and now having read this article, I'm entirely convinced that UNITEX is solidly on the side of error, and that Patt (and Gene and Chuq and, if I remember correctly, Greg) did the correct thing in leaving the newsgroup behind. Those folks have a very long and mostly honorable history on the Usenet, and their outlook on the situation can be taken with only a small grain of salt. In contrast, the verbage since then coming from UNITEX has been uniformly abusive, rude, and making a serious effort to discredit anyone who might have disagreed with your party line. I don't buy it. There is an obvious lack of communication and understanding regarding the recent resignation of the misc.headlines.unitex moderator. The appearance from my perspective is that you are equating "disagreement with us" with "lack of communication." All communication which has been relayed to us (I note quite carefully that no one from UNITEX made the first effort to discredit Chuq's summary of email discussion regarding the appropriateness of your postings) has pointed very clearly to the UNITEX people taking the outlook that what they wanted to do was Right and that opinions contrary to that were not to be tolerated. Nonsense. People with that kind of attitude deserve to be ignored. This of course could leave one wondering why I am bothering with this followup; it has to do with the statement shortly following: I'm convinced that no one really cares. Actually, a lot of us care very much. I have withheld forming any really definitive opinion one way or the other until I could hear the other side of the issue. Now I have heard that side - now I have an opinion which you caused to be formed in my mind through the outlook you have provided. The opinion is already low and dropping fast. I am told that I am pompous and have no real understanding of how UseNet operates by people...that seem a lot more pompous than I ever did and certainly a lot less knowledgeable of this Network or any network for that matter. Attempting to discredit your entire opposition as being incompetent to discuss the matter in general is not a way to win people to your side. Very many people on the Usenet have done serious networking for a very long time, longer than UNITEX has been around by quite a margin. Big business, governments, the nonprofit community and the academic environments are suffering from what I've tried to highlight in a simple, straightforward title to this message. If we are suffering from something, it's from the self-impressed viewpoint of those who think they have solved the world's problems, or at least think they are well on the way to doing so. Unfortunately [networks] are a poor substitute for channeling peoples hostility, frustration and bitterness or whatever new dilemmas are pressing hard on modern yuppie man. A great many of us do not qualify for the definitions of any of the entries in your Subject:. I am no bean counter, no "queer" in any sense of the word that seems even remotely applicable, nor does "yuppie" fit me very well (use of computers and networks does not alone a yuppie make; otherwise, you must admit to being your own worst enemy) -- again, you have attempted to discredit your entire opposition by lumping it all into large, monolithic, and just awfully convenient pigeonholes that really don't match the situation well. If anyone out there is engaged in research or actually trying to DO something, then I'm sure my title description needs little explanation. For the others..... it's simply not worth my time to explain..... Good heavens, man, you have an attitude such as I've not seen in a very long time. A very great number of us who use this network are indeed involved in various types of research and other disciplines, and a very great number really are "trying to DO something." And I still don't agree with anything you've said. And then you conclude this idea with the comment that _your_ time is far too valuable to be spent explaining such elementary concepts...as though your entire opposition is (yet again) to be lumped into the group who do not understand such stuff. 'You are what you pretend to be...so be careful what you pretend to be....' I strongly suggest that you read that back to yourself, slowly, carefully, and repeatedly. And as much as you said previous to this, if you don't understand why, it's not worth my time to explain. --Karl Kleinpaste Senior Researcher Ohio State Computer Science Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com