Xref: utzoo news.announce.newgroups:147 news.groups:15154 sci.math:8742 sci.math.stat:999 sci.misc:3934 comp.sys.next:4051 comp.sys.mac:43075 comp.sys.ibm.pc:38904 comp.unix.questions:18019 comp.os.vms:20104 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!ncar!announce-moderator From: WCN@MAX.ACS.WASHINGTON.EDU (W C Newell Jr) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.math,sci.math.stat,sci.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.unix.questions,comp.os.vms Subject: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: comp.math and comp.stat Message-ID: <8911281924.AA15699@ncar.UCAR.EDU> Date: 27 Nov 89 17:41:37 GMT Sender: woods@ncar.ucar.edu Reply-To: W C Newell Jr Followup-To: news.groups Lines: 136 Approved: woods@ncar.ucar.edu (Greg Woods) X-Vms-To: IN%"news-announce-newgroups@ncar.ucar.edu" Newsgroups:,news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.math,sci.math.stat,sci.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.unix.questions,comp.os.vms This is a two-part proposal, involving the creation of two new groups: comp.math and comp.stat Because the charters of these two groups are very similar, I am presenting them in a single article. It is hoped that the discussion thread will be easier to follow as a result. A separate vote will be held for each group. The Purpose of COMP.MATH: To discuss suggestions and problems related to the use of commercial and public domain math subroutine libraries, such as IMSL, NAG, PORT, LINPACK, EISPACK, and others; also, to discuss the use of self-contained software packages for numerical analysis and symbolic math, such as Mathematica. Primary emphasis will be on the selection and proper use of available routines, as well as special considerations for porting codes across multiple platforms or using non-Fortran programming languages. Discussions on the implementation of algorithms, including architectural considerations for vector and parallel processors, will be considered germaine. Theoretical discussions will continue to be the province of sci.math, sci.math.num-analysis and sci.math.symbolic. Benchmark codes are also germaine, although may by necessity involve cross-posting with other comp.* groups. This group will be unmoderated until such time as there is sufficient interest in moderation to justify a further proposal. The anticipated volume of comp.math is 10-20 articles/day, including the cross-posting of existing public mailing lists. Assuming the group is created and sustains this level of interest, there will be followup proposals to open subgroups, most likely comp.math.mathematica and comp.math.benchmarks I expect the vote on this group to be very high; I have placed a side bet on the question of whether or not it will draw more than 1,000 yes votes. The Purpose of COMP.STAT: To discuss suggestions and problems related to the use of commercial and public domain statistical analysis packages, such as SAS, SPSS-X, BMDP, S, MINITAB, and others; also, to discuss the use of subroutine libraries, or subsets thereof, implementing statistical functions. Primary emphasis will be on the selection and proper use of available procedures and routines, as well as special considerations for using self-written procedures in conjunction with existing packages. Discussions on data handling methods, including techniques for dealing with frequently-used government and commercial datasets (e.g. US Census data) are welcome. Discussions on the implementation of algorithms will also be considered germaine. Theoretical discussions of statistical methods will continue to be the province of sci.math.stat. This group will be unmoderated until such time as there is sufficient interest in moderation to justify a further proposal. The anticipated volume of comp.stat is 50-100 articles/day, including the cross-posting of existing public mailing lists. Assuming the group is created and sustains this level of interest, there will be followup proposals to open subgroups, most likely comp.stat.sas comp.stat.spss comp.stat.bmdp comp.stat.s I expect the vote on this group to be very high; I have placed a side bet on the question of whether or not it will draw more than 2,500 yes votes. Common justification: The time has come to incorporate support for major application software packages into the Usenet namespace. Each of the applications named above is now available across multiple platforms, in most cases including various flavors of UNIX. Additional UNIX ports have been announced as in-progress by the vendors. The popularity of these packages is steadily increasing, both in terms of the number of users and the range of disciplines they serve. Public LISTSERV- and Internet-based mailing lists exist for several of these packages, and the demand for peer consulting using these lists is straining their manageability. The SAS-L list alone generates 10-50 messages per day and has at least 2,500 subscribers worldwide. Many users are reluctant to subscribe because of the inability to filter such a large volume of material when it is distributed via e-mail. The newsreaders' presentation model would go a long way toward solving this problem. In addition, message propagation delays would be significantly reduced for academic sites on the Internet by virtue of using NNTP, as opposed to BITNET's store-and-forward transport. Many academic sites, including the UW, are now actively promoting use of the newsreader as a general-purpose conferencing tool. Our users are beginning to feel comfortable with the notion of going to the newsreader for information gathering or for second-line consulting support, even when their applications are running in different environments. We would like to encourage this trend by adding more application-specific material to Usenet, and thereby utilize the Internet's increased bandwidth to its fullest advantage. It is recognized that some UUCP sites may balk at this; in my opinion, however, the increases in total volume, and hence the need for some sites to be more selective in their choice of feeds, is inevitable. The benefits to the Usenet community as a whole are very much worth the nominal amount of extra work involved. Administrative details: The discussion period will last through Friday, December 15, at which time it is expected that a call for votes will be posted. The deadline for voting will be sometime in mid-January, to accomodate the schedules of academic users who will be on vacation during the holidays. The votes for each group will be administered at this site using aliased IDs; interim tallies will be kept confidential, as other UW staff members may choose to lobby in favor of either group. I do not read news.groups, and I do not intend to participate in the "debate" over these proposals. Associates will be monitoring the discussion and will provide me with a summary. Questions on the proposed charter(s) which require elaboration may be e-mailed to me, and I will post a followup, if necessary, to news.groups. Malicious flames are not welcome and will be forwarded to site administrators. It should be noted that the details for mailing list cross-posting have yet to be worked out. It is not my intention to repost digests of Usenet traffic back to LISTSERV-based lists, but I will entertain any offers of assistance in this regard should there prove to be demand after the groups are in operation. This site will provide archives, as soon as I can find suitable software to do the dirty work for me. In summary: These groups represent a major service enhancement to academic and research users with access to Usenet. They stand on their own merits. In addition, it is hoped that their inclusion will broaden the Usenet audience and further enhance the quality of the information database overall. I encourage everyone to give them unqualified support. Bill Newell Systems Analyst, Applications Consulting Group University of Washington WCN@MAX.U.WASHINGTON.EDU Brought to you by Super Global Mega Corp .com