Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: HUMAN VERSES SINLESS Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 89 05:40:13 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 90 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Several people have already responded to the posting from Andrew Springman. I'd like to add a couple of thoughts that struck me while reading through the responses. >> 1) Humans are defined as sinners. Humans are born with a sin nature that we've inherited from Adam and Eve. Now this sin nature is not what makes us a sinner. The sin nature is what predisposes us to committing sin; it is what makes yielding to temptation easy. What makes us sinners is the act of sinning. Simplistically, you could say that a person is a liar if they have lied but once. The same can be said for sin--you commit one sin you are a sinner. As long as the sin nature has its chains of bondage wrapped around us, we are bound to sin. This leads me to the second point: > >> 2) Humans are confined to sin until heaven. >> >> To this I ask what the Resurection and the Cross were all about? What >> does it mean that our old selves are crucified with Christ and that we are >> new creations and that we are washed in the blood of Jesus, white as snow. >> Why can't we walk in holiness? Who's to stop us if God is with us? The Cross is what shatters the chains of the sin nature. But the problem, as Paul so eloquently points out in Romans 7, is that our flesh has been used to sinning; and, futhermore, our flesh desires to sin. Does this mean that there isn't anything that we can do about sin this side of Home or the Second Coming--God forbid. We can do a lot to defeat sin and live more holy lives. But notice that I stop short here. I see two points of view here, though there may well be more. ;-) One is that we can't possibly overcome our sinful nature this side of Heaven. The other is that we can wipe out 99.9999% of sin in our lives. Both views can lead to serious problems in my estimation. To say that we can't overcome our sinful nature this side of Heaven is an admission of defeat. We are told that we are more than conquerors through Jesus Christ; also, we are told that if God be for us who can be against us. This says we have the power. Further, we are made new creatures when we come to Christ. So to say that we can't overcome our sinful nature to me is an erroneous statement. To conclude that because we have been given access to such great power and are new creatures, we can completely defeat sin is to also miss the boat. I find that the closer I draw to Christ the more I see sin for what it really is and the more clearly I see sin in my life that before I had been blind to. Finally, I must conclude that I will be fighting sin within my members until the day I die or the Second Coming, whichever is first. I make a simple anaology here. Sin is like a lethal narcotic. I'm a junky hooked on sin. Can I overcome my addiction? Yes, but I must always fight against that addiction. I must always be on guard to weed out any last vestige of it within me. For me, what works is to resist the temptation and then run immediately to my Father. It is in the arms of my Father that I have the strength to defeat the sin within that wants so desparately to yield to the temptation. Do I always succeed? Not 100% of the time. But some days are far better than others. Some days when I've been reading, studying, and meditating upon the Word and in much prayer, I find that I have no problems not yielding. Then other days when I've let the cares of this world flood in, when I find myself faced with the problems of earning a living and raising a family, I'm weak and I yield--suddenly there is anger and harsh words where there should be love and gentle words. At these times I thank God for Jesus Christ who is able to save me and through whom I have forgiveness. >> 3) Those people who are walking in the light are not being praised. >> >> If anyone should be praised it should be sinless humans not sinful >> humans. To which Harry Edmon responds: > >The praise goes not to falible humans, but to our Perfect God in >heaven, who blots out our sins by His love. I can only add that even when I'm clearly walking in the Light and the Spirit, I don't deserve any accolades or praise from anyone. That is what is expected of me--my due. I'm not deserving of praise because it is not me that is doing it but Jesus Christ. The Spirit indwells us both to *will* and *to do*. Peace to ya'll, Gene