Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bnr-fos!bmers58!davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Once Saved Always Saved Message-ID: Date: 3 Dec 89 17:56:00 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada Lines: 102 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article jhpb@lancia.garage.att.com writes: >I took "once saved, always saved" to be a reference to the idea that >once one has accepted our Lord as one's "personal Saviour", it's a >straight ticket to Heaven. It is not that we accept Christ, as many people suppose, but rather that He accepts us. 1 John 4:19 says "We love him, because he first loved us.". Once He has accepted a particular person, sinful as he is, his salvation is secure. Ephesians 1:13 tells us that it is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. If a person is accepted by Christ then He will begin to draw him and eventually formally save him. From an earthly perspective this shows up as that person placing his complete trust in Christ not only for his eternal destiny (in His role as Saviour) but also for the principles by which his life must be governed (in His role as Lord). True salvation is when a person submits his life to Christ, but this is really the result of God having replaced his heart of stone with a new heart of flesh. In Ezekiel 36:26 God describes the salvation process by declaring "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.". Note that a saved person's heart had to be entirely replaced and not just repaired. Less figuratively and more mechanically, true salvation is when God replaces a person's sinful soul with a new soul which no longer can tolerate sin in any form. Even though that person is left (for the time being) with a body that lusts after sin, his soul wars against these desires and gains more and more control over the body so that less and less sin is apparent in the life of that person as time progresses. The apostle Paul describes this struggle between the soul and body of a saved person in Romans 7:22-24 by saying "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?". A person should reevaluate his perceived salvation if he does not experience this inner conflict. Anyone can say that he has accepted Christ as his Lord and Saviour, but such a statement is of absolutely no effect if it is not accompanied with the cleansing action of the Holy Spirit within him. This is an action which only God can initiate. The Scriptures tell us that we can know a truly saved person by his fruits. A person who is truly saved truly recognizes Christ as the Lord of his life. A person who is not truly saved does not. This is usually evidenced by his conscious, voluntary, continued involvement in some particular sin. Perhaps, even though he knows that God has no tolerance for sexual relations outside marriage, he continues to share accomodations with someone to whom he is attracted. Perhaps, even though he knows that God declares homosexual activity to be an abomination to Him, he continues to involve himself in that particular life style. Perhaps, even though he knows that smoking is nothing less than slow, self-murder, he does not make a sincere effort to quit. Perhaps, even though he knows that only death can terminate a marriage, he divorces his spouse for some reason that he can't believe God would refuse even though there is absolutely no Scriptural evidence to support his position. In all such cases a person is really declaring that that sin is more important to him than obedience to the one whom he has said is Lord of his life. 1 John 2:3-5 says "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.". >It would appear to make salvation independent of one's actions. One >person robs a bank, and ends in Hell for it, another robs a bank, and >yet goes straight to Heaven. Let's be careful not to judge others too severely. We are all equally guilty of sin. It is wrong for us to start deciding which sin is worse than which other sin. If we really want to know what God considers the most offensive sin to be then we had best ask Him. Jesus gives us the answer in Mark 12:29-30 which says "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments {is}, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this {is} the first commandment.". If you do not love God with ALL your heart and with ALL your soul and with ALL your mind and with ALL your strength then you are committing a more serious sin than the guy who robbed the bank. No one of us comes even remotely close to keeping this particular commandment, the most important one of all, perfectly. Each of us is, therefore, just as guilty as the next person before God. Philippians 2:3 commands each of us "{Let} nothing {be done} through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.". Let each of us, therefore, direct all of his efforts toward the elimination of sin from his own life. Romans 14:4 says "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.". If we notice a sin in someone else's life, let us not forget to ask God to forgive him for it, but let us also use that observation as the stimulous to search our own lives for worse sins than that one. Instead of judging the physical sins of others, let us be thankful that God, in the person of Jesus, took upon Himself the equivalent of the punishment of eternal damnation that we so rightly deserve for our spiritual sins. Dave Mielke, 613-726-0014 856 Grenon Avenue Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K2B 6G3