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From: rwaters@bbn.com (Rolland Waters)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Are there still good teachers?
Message-ID: <49200@bbn.COM>
Date: 5 Dec 89 15:59:36 GMT
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In article <8841@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford) 
writes: 
>Let me explain a somewhat abstract point that has bearing on this
>discussion: university faculty are not supposed to be teachers.  
>[...]  Imagine signing up for "Philosophy 101" with Plato...and 
>taking a midterm!  That isn't the way things worked.  [...]
>No, I'm not bitter (although I am a bit frustrated by many of my
>current students) -- I like what I do, most of the time..  I'm also
>not a "bad teacher" -- I generally get very high evaluations from my
>students, and I've had some training in educational techniques.

But Plato isn't on the Purdue faculty, either.  You make a very valid 
point, that at one time faculty had a higher place and ability, and this 
is clearly not the case now. (Actually, could it ever be the case, since 
part of what is happening is a relative comparison of faculty, with
the question being "is the majority in the top 5%?"?)

And if part of what you want is for your students to be well motivated,
well rounded, observant, and integrated, it's probably a bit much to
expect from somebody just out of high school, particularly when it's
only a very small percentage of Amerika that is like that anyway.

Some of the intent of college is to take random high school grads and
give them a place to grow into being the students you want.  Only a 
small percentage of them will actually make it.  Success may be poorly 
correlated with previous educational success and knowledge background.  
On the other hand, how many of Plato's students made it into the Big Time, 
and how are is our system doing in comparison?  

Getting a little deeper, one might even consider the notion that the
value of higher education has changed fundamentally.  In the dim and
distant corners of human history it was easier to have one's innate
animal characteristics fully functional (athleticism, ability to 
deal with fear, love and those other icky emotional and artistic 
tendencies), and so it was the development of the mind that was required
to be well balanced and high on Maslow's hierarchy of wants and needs.  
Today, with many college types having well developed abstract reasoning 
capabilities, today's Plato and Aristotle equivalents are probably out 
windsurfing the Columbia River Gorge and free-climbing 5.12 in Yosemite, 
since it's these more basic aspects of us that is weak and in need of 
development.  But unless one is there one will never know.


Rolland