Xref: utzoo comp.edu:2776 comp.software-eng:2657
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!psueea!news
From: news@psueea.UUCP (Net News Account)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: Re^2: CS education
Message-ID: <2065@psueea.UUCP>
Date: 9 Dec 89 19:20:43 GMT
References: <474a6994.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> <1989Dec8.162411.28871@aqdata.uucp>
Reply-To: warren@jove.cs.pdx.edu (Warren Harrison)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Portland State University; Portland OR
Lines: 53

>
>So universities _can_ give a professional education, it's just that some
>have to wait for graduate school?  There are others (teachers (in some cases),
>musicians, business majors) that don't have to wait.  I just would like to
>see more cases where a professional education can be had at the undergraduate
>level.
>
Except for Accounting, any other major from a B School can hardly be
considered a "professional degree". Even in Accounting (this is what my
ug degree is in ... I also spent 4 years as a faculty member in a B-School
teaching at both the undergrad and MBA level) what you really get is a
"pre-professional" degree. To get the professionalism, you are expected to
work for several years in order to get the CPA.  A degree in Accounting does
not prepare you in any way to become immediately productive in a CPA firm,
though for those who don't make the grade and go into private accounting
they are taught how to do journals and ledgers.
From: warren@psueea.uucp (Warren Harrison)
Path: psueea.uucp!warren

An accoutning program does cover a great deal of "general stuff" too. COurses
in marketing, production, personnel management, etc. are considered just as
important as Auditing and Tax Accounting. The goal is not to turn out
narrowly focused Accounting automaton, but rather to produce people who
knowledgeable about commerce in general and Accounting in particular.
Ask someone in the local B-school about the Common Core Requirements.
>> There isn't enough time in a 4-year program
>> to cover law *and* everything else an educated adult needs to know in order to
>> practice law.  (Fess up;  I'll bet your wife's degree in Library Science
>> was a Master's, right?)
>
>Yes, she does have an MLS but I should think a four year CS program could
>be more suited to the real world.  How often have you come up against
>mu recursive functions?  I haven't yet.
>
Interestingly enough, the trend is moving towards 5-year Accounting programs,
becuase there *isn't* time to do what needs to be done in four years.
>> You can't produce an intelligent, educated graduate unless the graduate *wants*
>> to become an intelligent, educated person.  As you point out, most students
>> *want* pieces of paper which enable them to get jobs.  It's hard to educate
>> somebody who is in college only to get the diploma.
Right on!
>
>As I mentioned in another posting, today it is hard if not impossible to
>get certain jobs without that diploma/college experience.  Do not blame
>someone if their priority is job first, education second.
Give someone a fish and they can eat tonight, teach someone how to fish
and they can eat forever. 


Warren Harrison                CSNET: warren@cs.pdx.edu
Department of Computer Science UUCP:  {ucbvax,decvax}!tektronix!psueea!warren
Portland State University      Internet: warren%cs.pdx.edu@relay.cs.net
Portland, OR 97207-0751