Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!mattd
From: mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple
Subject: Re: Menus in NDA windows
Message-ID: <37093@apple.Apple.COM>
Date: 7 Dec 89 19:16:59 GMT
References: <8911300611.AA17058@apple.com> <9338@microsoft.UUCP>
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA
Lines: 70

In article <9338@microsoft.UUCP> roberth@microsoft.UUCP (Robert Hess) writes:
>Joe Wankerl asked the original question:
>
>|| ...an NDA which could use a menu bar...  Is there an easy way to do
>|| this?
>
>To which Matt Deathridge responded:
>
>| ...the answer is "yes." Strategies for this are discussed in Apple IIgs
>| Technical Note #3.
>|
>|
>| Even easier is a pop-up menu as a control, which TaskMasterDA will
>| handle for you.  All you'll have to do is check to see which control was
>| selected, and when it's the pop-up, go get the current selection from
>| the control record.
>
>...and what follows is a 'personal' style opinion hopefully nobody will take
>offense...
>
>Unless there is a trick to make a pop-up menu look almost exactly like a
>pulldown menu in an NDA, I personally would recommend against people
>putting a pop-up in their info bar (with some exceptions).  I have seen
>an NDA that uses this shortcut to have 'menuness' in their application,
>and I personally don't care for how it looks (the same application used
>different colors for the window border and such, which also looked
>unappealing).  People are used to having menus at the top of their
>applications.  They know how to use them, and they recognize them when
>they see them.  If you want to diverge from this, it should be for
>*good* reasons, not just because it is easier to code.  Maintain the
>'look and feel' of the Apple Interface, it is there for a reason.
>
You can misspell my name, but don't put words in my mouth.  I scream as loudly
and as long as anyone about human interface inconsistencies.  I was not 
meaning to recommend a pop-up in an info bar (which would not be easy to
do anyway; you can't put controls in the Info Bar because it's not in your
port, it's in the Window Manager's port).  I was suggesting using a pop-up menu
within the NDA window area as a good alternative to having a menu bar in the
NDA for just a couple of menus.  In fact, the pop-ups as opposed to a separte
(or even separate) menu bar are actually preferable according to the HIG,
which doesn't even allow for multiple menu bars.

>I have also seen people using the 'square' button type rather then the
>'round' button type in their applications (includeing Apple's sample
>apps) I feel that this too is an improper practice.  Buttons are round.
>That is what people are used to seeing.  Sure, us programmers and
>experienced users who are comfortable with the apple can recognize all
>sorts of weird controls, and use them instantly, and aren't scared to
>experiment.  But I have tutored new users, who *need* to have a
>consistant user interface, and are *scared* when they don't recognize
>something.  Change the shape, position, usage of a control, and they are
>lost.
>
I will agree that unless you have some reason to use square, drop-shadowed
buttons in your program, please don't.  They look just like pop-up menus
and cause a lot of confusion - far more than you benefit from having a "neat"
looking button.

>- Robert


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