Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!decwrl!ucbvax!PRIME-A.POLY-SOUTH-WEST.AC.UK!S61304 From: S61304@PRIME-A.POLY-SOUTH-WEST.AC.UK (Rat) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Technical Documentation (where??) Message-ID: <8912120806.AA00934@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 12 Dec 89 01:28:50 GMT Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 77 (From "The Masked Rat Fink" "Computing and Informatics Yr4") This is mostly in reply to Ken.B's comments but is also available for the rest of you to comment upon. Ken, I would like to say that just because a large number of users do not want to program on their ST's this is no reason to provide almost zero information with them. When I bought my ST I was expecting to get a nice user manual with it, but instead I find a flimsy pamphlet which almost but not quite describes the use of the desktop. The only technical information supplied is in the manual for ST BASIC and if my memory serves correctly, the actual quantity of hard facts or system information is the square root of nothing! I don't know whether you non-British folks have heard of the BBC Micro manufactured by Acorn (of Archimedies fame!) but this came supplied with one of the best manuals that I have ever seen for a micro computer. It had loads of system information, by which I mean things like memory maps, and system call vector addresses. They even put a small paragraph in the manual about the system routines, saying that they were not trying to hide the OS from the programmer, infact they were being as open as they could be, whilst allowing for future expansion. The use of vectors allowing the OS authors to completely change the inside of the ROM anytime they liked without affecting well written software! This meant that BBC Micro software was very robust, and that no one really worried too much about OS versions, unless they specifically wanted the extra facilities offered by it. If a BBC Micro developer wanted to get all the information they could about the machine there were (still are! :-) three other manuals available at about 20 pounds each (translate to dollars yourself). One for advanced programmers, one for basic disk drive information and one for advanced disk information. That was it! You didn't need anything else! My point is that if that much information can be supplied for a machine that was in its day what the ST is now, why was no technical information supplied with the ST? Sure teach someone to use the desktop, but after that they are locked into just using packages. Alright so packages are important, but they don't all get written by professional developers. Many of the ST programmers are like me, enthusiastic amateurs (sp?) who develop software for pleasure/ fun/the_hell_of_it ! I can't afford to pay the developers license inorder to get the docs, but I would like a few basic facts about my machine! I personally think that the attitude you take as far as non-professional programmers is concerned is arrogant (sp?) and not what I would expect from an engineer. Heck, most engineers (software or otherwise!) can't shut up when you ask them about their 'baby' and they can never go to too much trouble to be of assitance. To use your least-favorate analogy, it's like a car salesman telling you that you can't find out what's under the bonnet until you get your advanced drivers certificate! This not really a flame, as I don't hate anybody, just an observation on a lamentable ommision! However, constructive debate on this matter would serve a useful purpose. And if Ken would be so kind as to tell me an address I could write to, then I will write another version of the above and send by Snail Mail in order to make my feelings know to Atari UK/USA. As a parting shot, I intend to stick with the ST, despite the lack of support, because it is a good machine, but it doesn't mean that I have to like having no docs. If DEC or IBM tried to sell a machine without docs they'd be laughed out of the business! TMRF (who just _LOVES_ the heat! :-) | Simon Chappell (The Masked Rat Fink) | Computing and Informatics (Final Year), Polytechnic South West (Plymouth) | |"Better the pride that resides, in a citizen of the world, | than the pride that divides, when a colourful rag is unfurled." - RUSH | | JANET S61304@uk.ac.psw.pa BITNET S61304@pa.psw.ac.uk | INTERNET S61304%uk.ac.psw.pa@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk | | Disclaimer: 'And you believed ME?'