Xref: utzoo alt.sys.sun:297 comp.windows.news:1702 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!hoptoad!gnu From: gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) Newsgroups: alt.sys.sun,comp.windows.news Subject: Re: Is SUN a "PURE PLAYER" in window systems - SunView or OpenWindows??? Message-ID: <9236@hoptoad.uucp> Date: 9 Dec 89 09:56:24 GMT References: <5fLz02oD72dj01@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> <129003@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> Organization: Grasshopper Group in San Francisco Lines: 68 In article <5fLz02oD72dj01@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> aksegu@uts.amdahl.com (Ashok Kumar A. Segu) writes: > I was going thru the SPARCserver family specifications (technical > brochure) ans saw that the WINDOW SYSTEM that SUN supports is > OpenWindows. This was also reiterated by Mr. Scott McNealy and Mr. Eric > Schmidt at the introduction of SPACRCserver 1 and 490 on Dec.6th. > > Guess what folks, the SYSTEM SOFTWARE does not include OpenWindows, > but includes SunView. rogern@sun.com (Roger Nolan, Product Marketing Manager--Windows) wrote: > This sounds like a misunderstanding. The OpenWindows Developers Release > 1.0 is supported and shipping on SPARC systems. No, this sounds like deliberate evasion. All the Sun press releases and speeches and brochures and stuff talk about Open Windows as if it was real, but Sun still ships the old SunView stuff and doesn't ship Open Windows *with the system*. Calling it a "Developers Release, SPARC Only" would be fine -- just stop telling the press and the customers that Sun is 100% behind Open Windows, leaving them with an ugly surprise when the system arrives. Also, I thought the Intel and Motorola ports would be out in October: > From: rprobst@SUN.COM (Richard Probst) > Newsgroups: comp.windows.x > Subject: Sun ships OpenWindows > Message-ID: <8909270029.AA26500@paba.sun.com> > Date: 27 Sep 89 00:29:27 GMT > > Sun is now shipping OpenWindows 1.0 on SPARC machines. Sun-3 and Sun386i > versions will start shipping in 30 days. > > OWN-1.0-4-4-5 SPARC -- Doc and Media $ 295 ND ** 9/25/89 > OWN-1.0-4-3-5 Sun-3 -- Doc and Media 295 ND ** 10/25/89 > OWN-1.0-4-R-5 386i -- Doc and Media 295 ND ** 10/25/89 (Note the dates in the last column.) > This means that you can buy one copy of the media and > documentation and run it on as many Sun workstations as you like. Oh, really? Can I upload it to uunet and let anybody FTP it or uucp it from there? Can I put it on the Sun User Group tape? Can I send it to the guy in Europe who is getting a runaround from his sales office but keeps seeing postings from other people who have it? If so, why didn't Sun just do all this stuff? Or simply put it on the next &%^$ Unix release! > At the current time, OpenWindows is a Developers Release. We are not > recommending it to the general end user community at this time. As a > result, SunView is still bundled with all of our systems and is the > default window system for Sun workstations. And with this policy, it sure will stay that way. Imagine you are a software developer. Let's say you port your first Sun product to Open Windows. The customers start to buy it. You ship them copies. Then: "What do you mean I can't run it? I have to buy Open Windows from Sun? You've ordered things from Sun before, it will take weeks just to get my sales rep to return a call, since I only bought three workstations. Howabout I just send back your software?" Will OpenWindows be bundled in SunOS 4.1, or will we have the same story for another whole year? -- John Gilmore {sun,pacbell,uunet,pyramid}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@toad.com Just say *yes* to drugs. Use your *no*s for government bullshit.