Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!datapg!com50!com2serv!craig
From: craig@com2serv.C2S.MN.ORG (Craig S. Wilson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: CALL FOR DISCUSSION:  SCI.VIRTUAL-WORLDS
Message-ID: <3203@com50.C2S.MN.ORG>
Date: 10 Dec 89 14:35:46 GMT
References: <1989Dec5.173743.651@mentor.com> <3186@com50.C2S.MN.ORG> <4828@blake.acs.washington.edu>
Sender: nntp@com50.C2S.MN.ORG
Reply-To: craig@com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Craig S. Wilson)
Organization: Com Squared Systems, Mendota Heights, MN
Lines: 59

I had written:

>>Just to correct a possible misconception, alt.cyberspace was created
>>to discuss the technical aspects of cyberspace and virtual realities 
>>without lifestyle overtones.  Alt.cyberpunk exists to discuss more 
>>fictional (predominately Gibsonian) aspects of these subjects.
>
to which Mr. Maddox responded:
>	I think this is an instance of revisionist net.history.  
>Alt.cyberpunk, alt.cyberspace, alt.cyberpunk.tech, and whatever other 
>alt.cyber* groups that might spring up in the next few minutes are the 
>products of someone's ability to issue the command creating an alt group,
>not of some supposed consensus about the nature of the group; there was 
>and is little in the way of consensus concerning what belongs where or what
>postings are appropriate to what groups. 
>

I was the one who issued the command creating alt.cyberspace after
some discussion in alt.cyberpunk.  Alt.cyberspace was created for the
reason stated above.

Alt.cyberpunk, since the last flamewar died down (you remember that
one don't you, Tom? Or didn't you survive?) has been dealing with
issues such as direct neural upload/download and performance art
involving computers, among other things.  I would call the direct 
neural hookup, "more fictional", at this juncture of the time/space 
continuum.  But that doesn't mean that the discussions are not interesting 
or appropriate.

Since three of the groups contain "cyberpunk" within their name, they
should be used for issues concerning cyberpunks.  The definition of
which is left as an excercise for the reader.  Again, the a.cyberspace
group was explicitly created to discuss technical issues and avoid
lifestyle permutations.  This way we do not need an
"alt.frustrated-author.virtual-reality" etc. newsgroup.  Although, Tom, 
you may be waiting for the creation of it.


>	Sci.virtual-worlds would probably have the effect of siphoning
>off the various technical (or pseudo-technical) discussions about 
>implmentation of cyberspace from the alt groups; alt.cyberpunk might
>or might not survive.  
>

Alt.cyberpunk will not only survive the creation of the new group, but
will probably flourish due to increased visibility.  Alt.cyberspace
may not benefit to the same degree, but will still exist.  We will
just have to wait and see how the moderation of the new group works
out.

>	Or to put it another way, think of the formation and
>prosperity or adversity of newsgroups as the net's evolutionary
>history--i.e., the whole thing's part intention, part accident, and a
>hell of a lot of rough justice, *particularly* in the alt.world.

Sounds like life all over.

/craig
"Real .sig writers do it in one line."