Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!aplcen!haven!adm!cmcl2!rocky8!cucard!ccnysci!christ From: christ@ccnysci.UUCP (Chris Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.birds Subject: Re: OUTDOOR Bird Plunder Summary: FACTS Message-ID: <3781@ccnysci.UUCP> Date: 7 Dec 89 03:49:02 GMT References: <853@wrgate.WR.TEK.COM> <1263@uwm.edu> <929@wrgate.WR.TEK.COM> Organization: City College of New York Lines: 128 In article <929@wrgate.WR.TEK.COM>, denise@dadla.WR.TEK.COM (Denise Caire) writes: > To all you bird-loving-narrow-minded-insufferable idiots who read this > net, you all started the discussion about killing cats to keep them > from the birdies at your feeders. When I asked a simple question of > how do I keep my cat in my yard when he's out, you all blew up. You > are obviously intolerant of other people's opinions. > Several people posted perfectly reasonable methods of preventing cats from killing birds in the area. Are you ignoring these, or did you miss them? And: belling a cat is not useless, as some have maintained. Perfect, no. But certainly more effective than nothing. > First of all, isn't name calling fun? Had enough? I know I have. So, > I won't make any personal judgements of you as you have of me. > I am not: > lazy > irresponsible > uncaring > cruel > uneducated > I recall flaming you for equating killing a cat with killing a child. YOU said that; it was never mentioned by the birder you were in the process of flaming at the time. I stand by it. > Anyone who knows me would laugh at using any of those adjectives to > describe me. > I don't know you. I'm not laughing. > I am going to present you all with the facts about the following: > cats - what are their good characteristics? > - what are their bad ones? > - what are the major causes of death? > birds - what are the major causes of declining populations? > I really don't see how this has progressed to this point. I think most of us would agree that 1. Cats are fine pets for many people. 2. They kill a lot of rodents. 3. Some of them kill a lot of birds. Who cares what the leading cause of cat mortality is? Not part of the discussion, unless I missed something important. Birds-declining pops: (see below). > Any one of you mud-slinging birders could also do a little research > before spouting off but no, let's gang up on one of the only cat-likers > who also likes birds. (My folks have 20 acres and all sorts of animals > such as deer and bear regularily forage there. They have cats and bird > feeders and the cats have only ever gotten one bird in over 10 years > because of the location of the feeders.) > Did I miss something that said ALL cats were bird-killers? I thought I read several postings which said the netters kept their animals inside, or had them trained not to kill birds. And if I might say, you/they have only SEEN them get 1 in 10 years. Negative evidence cannot be taken as positive proof. > Well, I changed my mind, fella. You want to shove your opinions of > what I should do as a cat owner in my face without even so much as > looking at the facts first. Well, I'm going to get facts. > Please include your source material. > Why are you bird-lovers so down on cats? I doubt that they really > are as big of a leader in birdacide as you make them out to be. > And, the general intolerance towards facts some of you display truely > lends credence to the term "bird-brain". > I'm so glad we decided not to resort to name-calling anymore. > I vow that if, through the course of my investigation, the facts prove > that cats are the leading cause of the falling bird population, then > I'll eat my (clear throat) hat. (Almost said cat but I just couldn't.) > > I'm sure that there are many other factors directly attributable > for the decline in bird population, such as pesticides, fertilizers, > toxic wastes, spreading civilization, unatural imbalance within the > animal kingdom, etc. > "Unatural imbalance within the animal kingdom"? Like, too damn many feral cats? > What are you doing about it as a professed bird-lover? Do you belong > to any environmentally conscience group? Greenpeace, Audubon Soceity, > other? Get active. Make a difference. It's easy to sit back at your > terminal and call a cat lover names, but how about putting your words > into actions? > No one said that other factors were not involved. Habitat destruction, pollution, etc. all have combined to wreak havoc on populations of wild birds. Is this cause to let our pets (not just cats) exacerbate the problem? What am I doing? What do I know about the problem? What organizations do I support? Well, I'm a PhD candidate in biology. Ny doctoral thesis title is "Effects of predation on tern populations". I'm a member of The American Ornithological Union, The Association of Field Ornithologists, The American Society of Naturalists, National Wildlife Federation. I know that cats (both 'pets' and feral) were the leading cause of mortality on piping plovers (an endangered species) at Breezy Point, NY, in the Jamaica Bay Natl. Wildlife Refuge. If you look in the publication, "Annual Piping Plover and Colonial Waterbird Survey" published by the Seatuck Organization (part of the Cornell Univ. Laboratory of Ornithology) you will see that predation by cats, rats, and seagulls is one of the worst things terns and plovers have to deal with. I knowthat the Bahama Parrot, an endangered subspecies of the Amazon Parrot whose only range is on 2 islands in the Bahamas, had virtually zero nesting success in the last 2 years. Cause: cats. (Bahama parrots are also unique in that they are the only ground-nesting parrot- they nest in limestone cavities). > can come armed with an open mind and some tolerance of others opinions. > I must admit it: although I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I am extremely intolerant of people who keep yelling about their right to their opinion, in the process of trying to ram their opinion down my throat. I often vomit on them as soon as they get in range. I'm not sure if that is due to the opinion, or some sort of a proximity effect. > >Obviously ALF's obsessed with cats too! Hmmmmmm? Doesn't that say something to you? > >CAN WE TALK ABOUT BIRDS FOR AWHILE? Please, yes. Thank you. Chris -- Chris Thompson [What does not kill us, pisses us off!!]