Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!att!cbnews!military From: jim@eda.com (Jim Budler) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Tom Clancy Message-ID: <12166@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 11 Dec 89 05:19:40 GMT References: <12095@cbnews.ATT.COM> <12144@cbnews.ATT.COM> Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Organization: EDA Systems,Inc. Santa Clara, CA Lines: 117 Approved: military@att.att.com From: jim@eda.com (Jim Budler) } From: illgen@hq.af.mil (Keneth..Illgen) } In article <12095@cbnews.ATT.COM> willner@cfa203.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) writes: } >From: willner@cfa203.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) } >Fans of Tom Clancy should read the article by Scott Shuger in the } >November issue of the _Washington Monthly_. Mr. Shuger's main point is } >that Clancy writes about how weapons are _supposed_ to work and how } >they are _intended_ to be used, but that these bear very little } >relation to the reality of actual combat. Hey, come on it's fiction, it's supposed to be fiction.... } I have to agree with Mr. Shuger wholeheartedly. Mr. Clancy has a great } capacity for absorbing information and presenting it very well on paper for } our entertainment but if there is one area where his lack of any true } military experience shows it is in his presentation of how weapons are } utilized (not physically used) in combat. I felt his first couple of times } at bat he gave us just enough to make it (the book) more interesting but in } his last few works there has been too much of a reliance in weapons to simply } resolve crisises in themselves. History proves that this is rarely the case } (although they do make a helluva good starting point). Yep! It's still fiction... } >Mr. Shuger makes another assertion that is frightening indeed, if } >true. He says that high government officials make policy on the basis } >of Clancy's novels. While I am skeptical on this point, I have to } >admit that the article makes a good case for it. I doubt it. But what I suspect they might do is make a subjective evaluation of the political tone of the Clancy novels, and then make an assumption based on the popularity of the novels. Sorta like making decisions based on political polls. Equally valid, equally invalid. i.e. junk. I hope our government is not making decisions based on fiction. } I really feel that Mr. Clancy's publisher came up with this. With the } exception of his latest he has rarely come up with a point of policy in } his books. I'm referring to the development of policy; not the implement- } ation. Clancy is very good at describing the implementation process. } Even though Ronald Reagan appeared on one of his book jackets as } an avid reader I can't imagine his (or the present) administration } referencing a Clancy novel to determine policy. John Kennedy appeared on a jacket as an avid reader of Matt Helm. As important, non-important, or irrelevant. } >If you want to see this sort of thing done right, read _The Third World } >War_; it's by a retired general and is much more convincing. (My copy } >has somehow disappeared, so I can't give author's name or publisher, } >and there is some chance the title is slightly wrong. It was published } >in the early 1980's, I think.) Which sort of thing? A good story, or a good tactical description of a war. Come on! Clancy is a GOOD *fiction* writer. He has managed to aquire a very good degree of technical *background* for his stories. As a writer he twists that background as he needs it to fit his desired story, not to fit any reality. } That was General Sir John Hackett (apoligies on the spelling maybe). } By far the best and most realistic apprasial of combat readiness and } order of battle in this decade. I thought he sorta fell flat with the ending } but how can one man pick a favorite nuke target. That's an ending that any } one would have a problem writing. After reading that book it finally sunk } into my head why exactly I was spending all those years in Europe. Tom Clancy has created some wonderful stories. If you have enjoyed his *fiction* as I have, great. If you believe the stories real, I have a bridge to sell you. If you believe the fact that high government officials have enjoyed or appreciated the stories means they are real, I have a bridge... Tom Clancy has created a *FICTION*. The fact that it is a political and technologically based fiction portrayed as todays political and technology has no reality. Do you think Tale of Two Cities and How Green was My Valley totally and absolutely accurately described the political and technological conditions at the time? I believe those two stories are very important descriptions of two important historical periods. Technical historians can find similar faults in them to the faults you find in Tom Clancy's works. I don't believe time will place Tom Clancy's works in the same category with those two classics. Maybe I will be wrong. Discussion of the technical errors in Tom Clancy's books may be appropriate for sci.military. Deciding the books are bad because of technical inaccuracy assumes they are not fictional. [mod.note: An excellent point, and a good guideline for Clancy's books. We'll talk about the technicalities here, and criticize the style in some other group. Besides, let's face it; we're all just sore that *we* didn't beat Clancy to the punch. 8-) - Bill ] jim -- Jim Budler jim@eda.com ...!{decwrl,uunet}!eda!jim compuserve: 72415,1200 applelink: D4619 voice: +1 408 986-9585 fax: +1 408 748-1032