Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!think!ames!apple!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jrossi@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (The Electric Sol) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Strangers in a Strange World Message-ID: Date: 6 Dec 89 05:53:45 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Jet Propelled Lab - Pasadena CA Lines: 70 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article tbvanbelle@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Terry Van Belle) writes: > >Don't forget that, while God made the world, it isn't going according to >the way it should have. yes it is. How could it be otherwise? Are you suggesting that somehow God had an "idea" or a "plan" for how the history of the world would go, and somehow everything that happened instead was somehow a "suprise." Of course, the classic arguement against this, if nothing is going the way God planned, it is certainly within His capacity to see that it does. >We've messed it up pretty badly (and I mean the whole >world: the planet, ourselves, our relationships with others...) >You seem to be implying that God wants us to sin. Yes, we're a real credit to our Maker ;-). Of course God wants us to sin, because he wants us to learn, and you learn by making mistakes. Why did God create "sinners" in the first place? >In any case, we aren't simply beasts who are destined to operate in fixed >instinctual patterns. We can, and should, supress those impulses that harm >others. Better still would be to reach a state where damaging instincts don't >arise; a laudable goal, but not terribly realistic. Still, it gives something >to aim for. Who created "instincts." ? I agree that we aren't simply beasts, but beasts with a God given consicous-awareness, a soul, if you will. Still the bio programming that is built into us, our nature, is not something we invented. That we struggle against our nature is a indication that we are striving for a higher order, an order that transcends the limited natural world. >>The Christian lives in the world under tension between his fear of God and >>the desires of the world. By forsaking the desires of the world, the >>Christian hopes to avoid eternal punishment. > >IMHO, I think you're a bit off base with this one. The ideal Christian life >is one in which we find continual joy in serving God. In this way we celebrat I agree. >between us and God. I hold fast to the idea that virtue is the path to true >happiness. Ironically, the Taoists seem to be the ones who have caught on to >this the best. Whats so ironic about that? Is this a plug for Taoism? Much of what I practice is akin to Buddhism, another Eastern path. I once said that Buddhism helps me be a better Christian, because it helps me to not sin, much more so, than any Christian "method." >As for your second statement, Christians have already avoided eternal >punishment. That's why they're Christians. So theysaved themselves? Have you saved yourself? Do you know for a fact that you are "saved?" Have you ever entertained a temptation, but resisted it because you "feared" God? Are you certain that you did so only because you're grateful to God for saving you, and not because deep inside you feared the consequences of disobeying God. The reasons for this are that I know many Christians who resist things because, as they have stated, they fear Hell. -- -jrossi@jato.jpl.nasa.gov "Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils -ames!elroy!jato!jrossi is still choosing evil." -Cptn. Trips **********************STANDARD DISCLAIMER******************************