Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Jews - Our Christian Attitude - (was advice to David Buxton) Message-ID: Date: 8 Dec 89 07:58:32 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. Lines: 51 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article ez000585@castor.ucdavis.edu (Jason Gabler) writes: >I am a Christian.. >Born in LI Jewish Hospital, circumcised on the 8th day and BarMitzvah'd at 13yrs >and Accepted Jesus at 10yrs >But I am definately not NOT Jewish. I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, if you mean you are not of Jewish descent or if you mean not of the Jewish religion. However this triggers some thoughts for me: Actually it appears to me that in New Testament times the Christians were not arguing against Judism but were saying effectively, "Christianity is the particular sect of Judism you should accept." For example, Rom 2:28-29 indicates that the important thing is to be a Jew inwardly in the heart, not outwardly in the (circumcised) flesh. Rev 2:9 and 3:9 both refer to those who say they are Jews and are not but are of "the synogogue of Satan." I believe the early Christians thought of themselves as Jewish. Even the Gentile Christians seemed to think of themselves as of a Jewish religion which is the reason for the controversy over circumcision (Acts 15 etc.). It seems to me that the question was not "Judism or Christianity" but "Which branch of Judism: Christian, Saducee, Pharise, or Essene?" The message of early Christianity seems to be, "This is true Judism to follow the Messiah who has now come to earth, even Jesus Christ." In this sense all Christians can consider themselves Jews, at least in religious belief. I would consider the main branches of Judism today to be Orthodox, Reformed, Conservative, and Christian. Perhaps if we thought of ourselves this way we would find it easier to understand and communicate with our fellow Jews and thus help answer Dave's original question. [I think you missed the double negative in Jason's original. At any rate, I am not convinced that claiming to be Jewish is going to increase communications with Jews. Certainly the original Christians were Jewish. I agree that it started with the orientation you describe. But we did come to a parting of the ways. The original separation of the Church from Judaism was very painful, and many Christians tried to avoid it. But there are enough differences in perspective that it's hard to see how it could have been avoided. I think it's too late to undo the separation. We certainly should understand our Jewish heritage, we should think of Jews as fellow members of the Kingdom of God, etc. But I think for us to claim that Christianity is a branch of Judaism is inviting something between incredulity and resentment. --clh]