Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: harry@atmos.washington.edu (Harry Edmon) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: HUMAN VERSES SINLESS Message-ID: Date: 11 Dec 89 08:50:15 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Washington Lines: 39 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article jrossi@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (The Electric Sol) writes: > I don't see how you can escape the conclusion that they [Adam and Eve] were > created as sinners, since once they had been created, they wasted little > time before disobeying God. They were sinners *before* the fall. If > they weren't sinners, they wouldn't have sinned, free will or not. The basic problems you run up against are the following: 1. What does "free will" mean? Why did God create us with it? 2. How can be reconcile the dual nature of God, i.e. a loving God and a righteous God? As to "free will", God create Adam and Eve with a choice on whether or not to obey him. Just because they were created with those options does not make them sinners. You are not a sinner because you have the opportunity to sin, only when you actually sin are you a sinner. As to why God created them (and us) that way, I believe it is because forced love is not love at all. The second question really arises from the question you asked in an earlier article "Why does God hate me?". You are certainly not alone in asking this. The whole book of Job deals with this question. Luther spent years in mental agony searching out an answer to this question "Why does God hate me?". We hve great trouble understanding a loving AND just God. We tend to either ignore the justice and claim that all are saved, or ignore the love and claim that all are doomed and that God hates us. But God is BOTH loving and righteous. He solves the dilema for us in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ and His death on the cross. Salvation is available to us all, all we need do is not reject the gift of faith in Christ Jesus. But this still does not negate God's justice and his condemnation of all who do not accept His freely given grace. -- Harry Edmon INTERNET: harry@atmos.washington.edu (206) 543-0547 UUCP: uw-beaver!atmos.washington.edu!harry Dept of Atmospheric Sciences, AK-40 University of Washington